Melee DPS Identity: Single-Hit vs Multi-Hit

[BabyYoda]

With the direction shown for Dragoon Evolved, it looks like Square Enix is experimenting with giving melee jobs stronger gameplay identities instead of only changing animations or simplifying rotations.

That made me think: maybe not every melee job needs to evolve through more positionals or similar rotation changes.

Some melee jobs naturally look like they should be single-hit heavy attackers, while others visually and thematically look like they should be multi-hit pressure jobs.

For example:

Samurai should feel like a decisive single-hit finisher job.
Reaper should keep its heavy scythe and transformation burst identity.
Dragoon can focus more on jumps, directionals, and precise spear attacks.
Monk naturally fits a rhythm-based multi-hit pressure style.
Viper looks perfect for chained multi-hit flow.
Ninja could use controlled multi-hit burst during assassination windows.

The important part is that multi-hit should not simply mean “more damage.”

A 600 potency skill could still be 600 potency total, but instead of being one hit, it could be split into multiple hits when the animation already shows several strikes.

The real value would be gameplay identity, not raw power.

This could also help give secondary stats clearer roles.

For example:

Single-hit melee jobs could scale better with Critical Hit, because their fantasy is about one decisive strike landing for a huge number.

Multi-hit melee jobs could lean more toward Direct Hit or Skill Speed, because their fantasy is repeated precision, rhythm, and flow.

This does not mean Crit should only work for single-hit jobs, or Direct Hit should only work for multi-hit jobs. That would be too restrictive and probably bad for balance.

But each damage structure could have a clear stat affinity:

Heavy single-hit jobs → stronger Crit identity
Multi-hit flow jobs → stronger Direct Hit / Skill Speed identity
Transformation burst jobs → Crit / Determination identity
Directional precision jobs → positional reward + burst control

This could make melee jobs feel different mechanically, not just visually.

The key is control.

Multi-hit skills should not allow every hit to independently trigger full Crit, Direct Hit, gauge generation, and procs without limits. That would become a balance nightmare.

A safer version would be:

Total potency stays the same
Buff snapshot rules stay controlled
Gauge generation happens per skill or per sequence, not per hit
Direct Hit or Skill Speed improves the feel/efficiency of multi-hit jobs
Crit remains stronger for big single-hit finishers

This way, Samurai still feels like a heavy execution job, Monk feels like sustained martial pressure, Viper feels like flowing chained strikes, Ninja feels like explosive burst, and Dragoon keeps a clearer positional/jump identity.

In my opinion, this would be more interesting than making every melee DPS evolve in the same direction.

Melee jobs should not only differ by animation.
They should differ by how their damage is structured.

[StriderShinryu]

I've been getting back into SAM recently and I definitely agree with this perspective. I actually really enjoy current SAM on a mechanical level but there's no question it just feels a little too.. spammy to really capture the job fantasy. It's one of the elements that the job lost when it lost Kaiten really, that more measured and focused feel. There are melee jobs that would definitely work with the "hit a million times a second" identity but SAM just really isn't one of them.

[Carighan]

Yeah this is something they really ought to work more on. In particular I feel two changes could go a really long way:

• Base GCD speed. Some classes get this via a trait, but it's not used nearly enough. For example even Viper, where the core idea is that they swap between a faster and a slower mode, is still too slow in the fast mode (and has an oGCD, I'd use none in return for an ~1.2s-~1.5s speed) and too fat in the slow mode. Samurai always having cast bars (at least brief ones) on many~most attacks would help a lot, too.
• The visual representation of that damage, which I think goes along with what you say OP. Instead of always making the player press 1 GCD + 2 oGCDs, I'd also have attacks that visually hit 6 times and produce 6 individual damage numbers. While others produce a single - large - number but also visually strike only once. If needed for performance this could even be client-side (i.e. the server only receives the total hit of the attack, just the player gets shown 6 individual damage numbers synced to the animation).

[BabyYoda]

I've been getting back into SAM recently and I definitely agree with this perspective. I actually really enjoy current SAM on a mechanical level but there's no question it just feels a little too.. spammy to really capture the job fantasy. It's one of the elements that the job lost when it lost Kaiten really, that more measured and focused feel. There are melee jobs that would definitely work with the "hit a million times a second" identity but SAM just really isn't one of them.

I completely agree with this.

Honestly, I still think removing Kaiten from Samurai was one of the biggest hits to the job’s identity. SAM should not feel like a fast spammy melee job; it should feel measured, focused, and deliberate.

One idea I always thought could have worked is making Samurai’s strongest attacks have a longer base cast/charge time, maybe around 3.5 seconds, but Kaiten reduces that to 2.5 seconds while also adding a meaningful bonus and allowing those attacks to have higher potency.

That would make Kaiten feel like an actual preparation technique before a decisive strike, instead of just being another button for the sake of it.

It would also reinforce the fantasy of Samurai as a job built around precision, patience, and powerful single-hit execution, while leaving the “many hits per second” identity to jobs like Monk, Ninja, or Viper.

For me, Kaiten was never just about damage. It was about rhythm and identity.

[BabyYoda]

Yeah this is something they really ought to work more on. In particular I feel two changes could go a really long way:

• Base GCD speed. Some classes get this via a trait, but it's not used nearly enough. For example even Viper, where the core idea is that they swap between a faster and a slower mode, is still too slow in the fast mode (and has an oGCD, I'd use none in return for an ~1.2s-~1.5s speed) and too fat in the slow mode. Samurai always having cast bars (at least brief ones) on many~most attacks would help a lot, too.
• The visual representation of that damage, which I think goes along with what you say OP. Instead of always making the player press 1 GCD + 2 oGCDs, I'd also have attacks that visually hit 6 times and produce 6 individual damage numbers. While others produce a single - large - number but also visually strike only once. If needed for performance this could even be client-side (i.e. the server only receives the total hit of the attack, just the player gets shown 6 individual damage numbers synced to the animation).

Yeah, I understand why Square Enix is probably careful with pushing Skill Speed or Spell Speed too far.

FFXIV is a game where players often need more than just pure rotation speed. Boss mechanics, movement, positioning, snapshots, and reaction windows all matter. If too many jobs start playing around a 1.2s–1.5s GCD, it could easily become harder to read mechanics or uncomfortable for many players, especially in harder content.

That is why I think multi-hit design could be a safer middle ground.

Instead of making every button faster, the GCD can stay around the normal 2s–2.5s structure, but certain actions can still *feel* faster or more fluid because the animation and damage structure contain multiple hits.

For example:

A skill could be registered server-side as:

“Skill X = 1000 total potency, multi-hit type, 5 hits”

Then client-side, the player sees it as five synced strikes with five damage numbers to match the animation and job feel.

This keeps the server-side balance simple, while still allowing the client-side presentation to support the gameplay fantasy.

The stronger version, in my opinion, is when this is not only visual. The total potency can stay the same, but the hit structure could still interact with gameplay in controlled ways, such as stat affinity, job flow, or even certain boss behavior.

Not every hit needs to roll Crit, Direct Hit, procs, and gauge separately. That would be too much.

But the game could still recognize that some actions are “single decisive hits” while others are “multi-hit sequences,” and use that difference to give melee jobs clearer identities.

Samurai can remain slow, focused, and single-hit oriented.

Monk, Viper, and maybe Ninja can express speed through multi-hit flow without forcing the whole job into an extremely fast GCD.

[Carighan]

The whole roll-crit-once-per-attack (that you get shown as 5 individual hits) could go even further, it'd allow having an "upgraded" animation that plays for crits. I hope at some point they do that, I think I saw a video a long time ago where someone rendered it like that (or maybe it was a hacked client dunno).

[BabyYoda]

Another interesting possibility is that this system could open different gameplay paths within the same melee job, without necessarily turning FFXIV into a full build-based game.

For example, Viper could have two different damage expressions:

* If the job leans more into **multi-hit**, it could focus more on the dual-sword style: fast slashes, chained pressure, and flowing sequences.
* If it leans more into **single-hit**, it could focus more on the joined twinblade style: heavier, more deliberate strikes with bigger payoff moments.

Ninja could also benefit from this kind of identity split.

A Ninja that leans more into **Ninjutsu** could have more single-hit or snapshot-based attacks, where the fantasy is precise execution and burst timing.

A Ninja that leans more into **multi-hit weapon skills** could focus on fast dagger attacks, rapid slashes, and short assassination-style flurries.

To be clear, I am not saying positional or directional gameplay is bad. I think that can work very well for Dragoon.

I just do not want every melee job to express mastery in the same way.

For multi-hit jobs, the gameplay check could be about maintaining rhythm and pressure instead. For example, completing multi-hit actions could refresh a short **Flow** buff. After enough stacks, the player could spend that flow on a stronger multi-hit finisher.

So instead of asking:

“Did you hit the boss from the correct direction?”

It asks:

“Did you maintain your sequence long enough to earn your payoff?”

This would not need to create completely separate builds with different gear sets or talent trees. It could simply give each melee job clearer internal contrast between its own tools.

The important part is that **multi-hit** and **single-hit** would not only be visual differences. They could represent different combat behaviors:

* single-hit = precision, preparation, burst payoff
* multi-hit = flow, pressure, speed, repeated accuracy

That would give jobs like Viper, Ninja, and Monk more identity inside their own kits, while still keeping the balance controlled.

[Valence]

I'm not totally sure to understand the concrete effects and differences in terms of gameplay this would introduce? Beyond different substats interacting better with each style (which is good)?

[BabyYoda]

I'm not totally sure to understand the concrete effects and differences in terms of gameplay this would introduce? Beyond different substats interacting better with each style (which is good)?

The main idea is not that every melee job should become multi-hit.

The idea is that melee jobs should not all express mastery through the same mechanic.

Some jobs can be built around directional damage, some around single-hit execution, and some around multi-hit flow.

Each style could have its own trade-off.

A directional job, like Dragoon, could have more movement freedom because its challenge is constantly adjusting position around the boss.

A single-hit job, like Samurai, could be more about preparation, commitment, and landing one decisive strike at the right moment.

A multi-hit job, like Monk, Viper, or Ninja, could be more about maintaining rhythm, pressure, and sequence flow long enough to earn a payoff. Its finisher could also require more commitment or be more movement-static, making multi-hit jobs less mobile during their payoff compared to directional jobs.

For example, Viper could express this internally:

* dual swords = fast multi-hit flow
* joined twinblade = heavier single-hit payoff

Ninja could also split its identity:

* Ninjutsu = precise single-hit or snapshot burst
* weapon skills = fast multi-hit flurries

The point is not only stat interaction or visual damage numbers. The point is giving melee jobs different gameplay questions:

* Did you position correctly?
* Did you prepare and spend your big hit correctly?
* Did you maintain your sequence long enough to earn the finisher?

That would make melee jobs feel different mechanically, not just visually.

[Valence]

Preparation, decisive strikes, rhythm, pressure, sequence flow, etc: I have no idea how those words translate into actual job gameplay, if that makes sense? What's a fast multi hit flow? What's a precise single hit or snapshot burst? What changes between a button that does a multi hit flurry and a button that does a big decisive strike beyond substat application (that would need to be adjusted for this to even work differently)?