Give Healers a simple DPS kit

[RaionKansen]

I would rather let a tarantula lay eggs in my ear canal.

Maybe you should focus on actually finishing MSQ and doing some content.

[ty_taurus]

Maybe you should focus on actually finishing MSQ and doing some content.

Give me a healer that's not Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis spam hell and I gladly will.

[RaionKansen]

Give me a healer that's not Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis spam hell and I gladly will.

>beg for 1-2-3 combo
>get 1-2-3 combo
>complain that 1-2-3 combo is no different than 1-1-1 6 months deep

[ty_taurus]

>beg for 1-2-3 combo
>get 1-2-3 combo
>complain that 1-2-3 combo is no different than 1-1-1 6 months deep

>Didn't ask for 1-2-3 combo. Actually asked for anything BUT a 1-2-3 combo.
> Got a 1-2 combo at the cost of EVERYTHING ELSE

Fixed it for you

[RaionKansen]

>Didn't ask for 1-2-3 combo. Actually asked for anything BUT a 1-2-3 combo.
> Got a 1-2 combo at the cost of EVERYTHING ELSE

Fixed it for you

So you want something special that the game doesnt even provide to other jobs?

What do you want?

[ty_taurus]

So you want something special that the game doesnt even provide to other jobs?

What do you want?

Have you played...
Red Mage
Black Mage
Bard
Dancer
Scholar pre Shadowbringers
Summoner pre Endwalker
Pictomancer as I understand it

You can use a combo in some capacity to facilitate something else, but Glare > High Glare and literally nothing else, not even a DOT? Nothing about that is what anyone was asking for at all in any way, shape, or form. It's the most obtuse way you could try to "respond" to anyone asking for more variety in DPS. And if you literally cannot wrap your head around the idea of anything that isn't just 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3 for all eternity like Sisyphus bound to hell, then I'm sorry for your lack of imagination, but it's quite frankly not my problem.

[RaionKansen]

Have you played...
Red Mage
Black Mage
Bard
Dancer
Scholar pre Shadowbringers
Summoner pre Endwalker
Pictomancer as I understand it
(snipped due to character limit)

"Why aren't healers like DPS?!?!?!?"

IDK, maybe because they're not DPS?

Would you really be happy if the jobs were just cheap version of already existing jobs? I have a hard time believing that.

I also have to stress a second time that its also because they're DPS. Healers are not DPS. Their kits are focused around healing and a lot of the current enjoyment of the role is min-maxing higher-end content where you can keep the entire party topped up in Savage/Ultimate without GCD healing at all by spacing everything out properly and coordinating/reacting to how your co-healer plays.

RDM is fun, are you thinking of a healer that heals or does dps every other GCD? What happens if you have no reason to heal? If you don't need to heal and you're just hitting 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2, how is that really any different?

I like BLM a lot, they could maybe make a healer that has to manage swapping between 2 forms, like a return to cleric stance, but it creates the issue where bad/greedy healers punish parties, and good healers will just do what's optimal either way. If it was just 1 healer it would make the roles imbalanced and if it was a core change to every healer, we'd probably also get tigher dps checks as a result of higher potential damage, which would change the priority for healer from actual healing to DPS....which isnt their real role.

BRD you could kinda do I guess. 3 Modes, one with raw healing, one with heal over time, and one with shields. They would probably still just have 1 dps button though and what would change are your healing abilities.

I did not get to play HW and StB, but I'm very confident that a decade later SCH would more or less be "solved" since people have only gotten better at MMORPGs over time. Also runs into the same issue where a greedy SCH could completely troll the team or the co-healer.

DNC is infinitely more boring than healing to me, but to each their own.

Summoner pre Endwalker really wasn't what people act like it was. You just roll all your stuff off cooldown then rinse and repeat. In a weird way it was like how a lot of pump and dump jobs are right now like GNB/DRK/DRG openers. Also, like any DoT focused job, it would be horribly punished anytime there was forced downtime where the boss is untargetable. Could they do away with untargetable phases? Yes, but I think some of those intermission-type phases are fun and interesting like P8S

Picto could work. You could have a heal and a dps combo instead of different paints, but they most likely wouldn't make your combo break when swapping between the 2, so you just get another flavor of 1a>2a>3a + 1b>2b>3b.

I don't have a lack of imagination, but you do really have to think things out. You technically didn't really engage my question aside from saying "I want healers to play like DPS", but I can just easily say, again, that they're not DPS....

[ty_taurus]

"Why aren't healers like DPS?!?!?!?"

IDK, maybe because they're not DPS?

Would you really be happy if the jobs were just cheap version of already existing jobs? I have a hard time believing that.

I also have to stress a second time that its also because they're DPS. Healers are not DPS. Their kits are focused around healing and a lot of the current enjoyment of the role is min-maxing higher-end content where you can keep the entire party topped up in Savage/Ultimate without GCD healing at all by spacing everything out properly and coordinating/reacting to how your co-healer plays.

RDM is fun, are you thinking of a healer that heals or does dps every other GCD? What happens if you have no reason to heal? If you don't need to heal and you're just hitting 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2, how is that really any different?

I like BLM a lot, they could maybe make a healer that has to manage swapping between 2 forms, like a return to cleric stance, but it creates the issue where bad/greedy healers punish parties, and good healers will just do what's optimal either way. If it was just 1 healer it would make the roles imbalanced and if it was a core change to every healer, we'd probably also get tigher dps checks as a result of higher potential damage, which would change the priority for healer from actual healing to DPS....which isnt their real role.

BRD you could kinda do I guess. 3 Modes, one with raw healing, one with heal over time, and one with shields. They would probably still just have 1 dps button though and what would change are your healing abilities.

I did not get to play HW and StB, but I'm very confident that a decade later SCH would more or less be "solved" since people have only gotten better at MMORPGs over time. Also runs into the same issue where a greedy SCH could completely troll the team or the co-healer.

DNC is infinitely more boring than healing to me, but to each their own.

Summoner pre Endwalker really wasn't what people act like it was. You just roll all your stuff off cooldown then rinse and repeat. In a weird way it was like how a lot of pump and dump jobs are right now like GNB/DRK/DRG openers. Also, like any DoT focused job, it would be horribly punished anytime there was forced downtime where the boss is untargetable. Could they do away with untargetable phases? Yes, but I think some of those intermission-type phases are fun and interesting like P8S

Picto could work. You could have a heal and a dps combo instead of different paints, but they most likely wouldn't make your combo break when swapping between the 2, so you just get another flavor of 1a>2a>3a + 1b>2b>3b.

I don't have a lack of imagination, but you do really have to think things out. You technically didn't really engage my question aside from saying "I want healers to play like DPS", but I can just easily say, again, that they're not DPS....

You really can't understand, can you? You say that nothing beyond 1-2-3 exists in the game. That's why I used those jobs as examples, all jobs that don't fundamentally revolve around 1-2-3 combos. No one is asking for a hotbar of 12 DPS actions, Cure, Medica, Raise, and Esuna. I literally have examples of alternatives to White Mage and Sage on this forum. Combos exist on the Sage suggestion as a means to facilitate different benefits to Kardia healing, but there's more going on that you have to think about than just sitting on those combos, and you still have reasons to cast Diagnosis and Prognosis or their Eukrasian versions. White Mage only has 5 active DPS actions, which is less than what White Mage has currently. The difference is that there's more dynamic interplay between those actions. It's not just Glare > High Glare. You can choose Dia for mobility or weaving. You have Holy to enable one of two bursts with different supportive benefits. You're bouncing between those actions more fluidly than just sitting on Glare for most of the battle. That's what's different. Is that too hard to comprehend? Because I can do my best to explain it in a more elementary way if that's what it will take.

What about Scholar pre-Shadowbringers which had DOTs with different durations, Shadow Flare, Miasma II, and a more impactful Energy Drain? Are you really not capable of understanding that you don't need a full DPS rotation to have something more than 1-1-1-1-1-1 or 1-2-3-1-2-3?

[RaionKansen]

snipped for character limit

As I said before, healers already have a basic DPS kit. They get their main damage spell, a dot, and a couple extra damage buttons.

You shouldn't ever be casting normal Diag/Prognosis. Its like a last-ditch effort when the co-healer is dead, or the boss isnt targetable.

We don't have the fully list of WHM job actions for Evercold. All we have is what they showed us in a rough draft. They glossed over several actions for each of the jobs shown.

I wouldn't use Dia for mobility. If it lines up, great, but you should be optimizing your slide casts and the rest of your kit.

Did you have a lot of experience playing SCH during Stormblood or are you just copying what others from the past have said? What content did you complete with SCH during Stormblood? Also as I mentioned, and I'll elaborate a bit more, there was a niche side of SCH back then, from my understanding, where you could really push your mana to its limits to squeeze out more damage on SCH, but I don't really want other people trying to do that on SCH when im in PF. We already have issues with healers greeding in PF without all of that.

That being said, SCH is way overdue for a real rework. I don't like the current SCH because a lot of the kit feels like it fights against itself. Energy drain / Aetherflow is in a poor state as well. I am hoping that SCH gets a good makeover in Evercold. SCH has pretty much been dead to me ever since I started playing SGE. I started playing FFXIV near the end of Shadowbringers and fell in love with SCH, but SGE is just better designed overall currently.

[ty_taurus]

As I said before, healers already have a basic DPS kit. They get their main damage spell, a dot, and a couple extra damage buttons.

You shouldn't ever be casting normal Diag/Prognosis. Its like a last-ditch effort when the co-healer is dead, or the boss isnt targetable.

We don't have the fully list of WHM job actions for Evercold. All we have is what they showed us in a rough draft. They glossed over several actions for each of the jobs shown.

I wouldn't use Dia for mobility. If it lines up, great, but you should be optimizing your slide casts and the rest of your kit.

Did you have a lot of experience playing SCH during Stormblood or are you just copying what others from the past have said? What content did you complete with SCH during Stormblood? Also as I mentioned, and I'll elaborate a bit more, there was a niche side of SCH back then, from my understanding, where you could really push your mana to its limits to squeeze out more damage on SCH, but I don't really want other people trying to do that on SCH when im in PF. We already have issues with healers greeding in PF without all of that.

That being said, SCH is way overdue for a real rework. I don't like the current SCH because a lot of the kit feels like it fights against itself. Energy drain / Aetherflow is in a poor state as well. I am hoping that SCH gets a good makeover in Evercold. SCH has pretty much been dead to me ever since I started playing SGE. I started playing FFXIV near the end of Shadowbringers and fell in love with SCH, but SGE is just better designed overall currently.

> You shouldn't even be casting Diagnosis/Prognosis. Exactly why Sage's DPS shouldn't just be an endless flow of Dosis. Sage is designed to do almost all of its healing weaved between DPS. Why wouldn't you also give it a soft rotation if it's going to spend most of its time attacking and weaving heals?

> Dia shouldn't be used just for movement. Dia in my example rework is not the same as current Dia. You're welcome to comment on the design in that thread.

> We don't have the full list of WHM job actions yet. From what they have shown us, there seems to be an emphasis on keeping jobs to 16 hotbar actions. It's true that we didn't see Holy yet, but here's the thing. During the demonstration, they specifically called out the concern about always casting the same action all the time, and followed that up with the reveal of High Glare. That is inandof itself a concerning statement about their understanding about the issue. I've said it before and I'll repeat myself. I can be wrong, and I sincerely want to be wrong, but there is nothing about the history of their management of healers that gives any confidence that this is some sort of misunderstanding or early conclusion due to lack of information. And hell, if it is, and we're all going to be pleasantly surprised. Good. You have no reason to fight on this hill then because we'll be proven wrong anyway. But without any reason to have that confidence, I and others will continue to provide feedback, which is the entire point of the forums to be clear, in hopes that some of it will get through.

> I did actually play a lot of all three healers during Stormblood actually. I've done a little of everything as Scholar. I didn't do a lot of savage admittedly because I don't really have the commitment to stay doing it over a period of time, but I'm no stranger to healing in Savage. You really want a medal of honor? I healed Twintania as a Scholar during ARR on a PS3 where the lag was so bad I needed to move before divebomb indicators displayed because it was impossible for me to move quickly enough if I waited for them to show up. And I DPSed with Scholar's 5 DOTs all with different durations I'll add: Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Shadow Flare, and Aero.