Thread: In Development And Hopefully Subject To Change [Spoilers For 8.0 Job Changes]

The evolved jobs as a concept seem pretty interesting, but how they've realized this concept is sadly not. Summoner is objectively one of if not the most disliked job in the game explicitly because of its simplicity and minimal inputs, so making every job like that is already a huge negative and for a not insignificant amount of people (myself included) a near complete deal breaker but that's not even my biggest concern even tho it is absolutely massive one and will almost single handedly stop me from using it.

My true main concern is that incredibly important QoL changes and rotation improvements are going to end up being locked behind evolved mode, for example Reaper's Death's Design debuff fucking sucks and is a major negative to the majority of people's enjoyment of the job and because of evolved mode it will likely never be removed from game. that's only 1 example but there's going be at least 1 thing for every job in the game that will probably never get fixed because instead of evolved being an alternative playstyle to co-exist with reborn mode, it's reborn mode being shelved to never receive the updates it deserved.

Evolved mode is almost a good idea, but if they go through with the current idea for it, it will ruin the game for a lot of people.

I'm sure they'll be looking for feedback, but how much could they realistically change in 9 months for 23 different jobs? It looks cool, but that's it. Once the novelty of it wears off, the game will begin to feel stale.

Big concern number 2 is that evolved mode is going to replace reborn mode (likely no matter how poorly it's received) and the fact that the 2 new jobs and all jobs going forward will only have evolved mode is proof of that.

I love this game, I have put more hours into just FFXIV than I have my 5 next most played games combined and I am extremely excited for Evercold and hopeful that during the next fanfest every doubt I have will be made completely null but I am still deeply concerned for what this will do to the game.

For further context of which jobs I like the most per role

Tank: Paladin
Healer: Sage
Melee DPS: Dragoon
Physical Ranged DPS: Bard
Magical Ranged DPS: Black Mage

Summoner isn't heavily disliked; it's actually very popular because it's a real summoner now. There are people who don't like it, but it's mainly some of the former, salty summoner mains that want the old playstyle back. It's often been recommended to people for being simple if they want simplicity.

I think that Summoner has a good flow to it and is quite fun. The main issue with it is really not being able to get different summons. Beast Master will soon be able to choose what they collect/summon while Summoners can't.

A reason why they may keep Reborn mode is because every MMORPG that overhauls their combat system typically loses a significant amount of their players. It sweeps the rug from under them, changes the foundation the game is built upon (the combat) and that turns people away. This mode is the attempt to learn from that by having a changed and unchanged mode. However, I wouldn't see a logic in maintaining it if only a few players were using it, but I suspect a lot of people will use it or for certain jobs.

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

SMN is the least popular caster in basically every measurable category we can look at through logs, I don’t think it’s just the “salty ex SMN mains” who don’t like SMN

People liked it as a foundation in EW but when they did nothing with it its popularity fell off a cliff

I agree that not adding to it has likely affected its usage because I too haven't really been using it in DT despite using it all the time in EW, but to an extent, I think there are plenty of other reasons as well, such as Pictomancer being released to compete in the caster space, Black Mage being easier and thus competing in the caster space.

In Endwalker, you had every reason to mostly avoid Black Mage unless you wanted a challenge and if we're honest, a lot of people want it braindead after a busy and exhausting day, or to prog content that they are unfamiliar with. Then you didn't have Pictomancer as an alternative. So it was more of a choice between RDM and SMN for simplicity.

For at least half the expansion I was using Pictomancer so, so much. Easy to enjoy it for quite a long time.

Originally Posted by ZephyrQueen

My true main concern is that incredibly important QoL changes and rotation improvements are going to end up being locked behind evolved mode, for example Reaper's Death's Design debuff fucking sucks and is a major negative to the majority of people's enjoyment of the job and because of evolved mode it will likely never be removed from game.

What? According to who? I play a lot of reaper and I enjoy it. What's wrong with it?
I hope they don't remove it. It's one of the few things that make it feel unique.

Originally Posted by Aviatorhead

What? According to who? I play a lot of reaper and I enjoy it. What's wrong with it?
I hope they don't remove it. It's one of the few things that make it feel unique.

While I think the statement is insane and does not represent how anyone but the poster feels... I do think Death's Design is fundamentally just a worse version of Dragoon's Power Surge, and that's why it is there, because they wanted to have something that would justify them being in the same sub-role of Melee, there is nuance to it, like method of application, being able to stack 60 seconds of it, so on, but when the two accomplish the exact same effect, it is hard to say otherwise, and a buff on yourself is just better.

Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

While I think the statement is insane and does not represent how anyone but the poster feels... I do think Death's Design is fundamentally just a worse version of Dragoon's Power Surge, and that's why it is there, because they wanted to have something that would justify them being in the same sub-role of Melee, there is nuance to it, like method of application, being able to stack 60 seconds of it, so on, but when the two accomplish the exact same effect, it is hard to say otherwise, and a buff on yourself is just better.

fundamentaly worse how though? Like how it feels to use?

I get what you're saying but just expanding on my opinion, I would prefer a game where we have different ways to get to the same outcome like with power surge and deaths design, than homogenizing the two classes because some people don't like managing a dot/timer of sorts. I like managing dots and I'm kinda sad that they keep taking them out of the game (summoner/viper being big ones for me).

Originally Posted by Aviatorhead

fundamentaly worse how though? Like how it feels to use?

A debuff on an enemy is gone as soon as that enemy dies, and is only on that enemy, if an enemy dies, it is gone, Power Surge remains as long as the DRG can keep swinging, if you had to switch targets due to some RNG factor like, say, M10S where some parts demand you randomly switch targets depending on how the fight goes, but again, Power Surge remains as long the DRG can keep swinging. Those are minor, even niche, pain points, but they are still pain points, and they come up, they wind up being largely outside the player's control.

This is a common trend to any system with buffs and debuffs where the systems don't interact with the debuffs beyond their own effect, to use a different game that I believe is popular enough many will be familiar, in Pokemon, if you are given the choice between giving your mon +2 Atk, and to give the opponent a -2 Def, gaining Atk will always be the better option even if they are identical in terms of damage calculation, because that will remain with you as long as the battle doesn't end and you don't switch, while the debuff will be gone as soon as the target dies, back to XIV, because Reaper doesn't do anything with that debuff other than the debuff existing and having its own effect, there is only mechanical disadvantages to it being a debuff, in a scenario where Death's Design was a buff, but all else about it is kept the same(that is, same application/refresh method, +10% damage, killing enemies while it is active gains gauge), the management aspect of it would stay untouched, while removing the pain points around it.

I am also not trying to say this is a make or break thing, just that it is worse, and it is visible that it is worse it is because the effects are so similar and the two Jobs are sibling Jobs.