Main & Off Tanks: Name Change

[Mikey_R]

Its the term used in MMOs for the roles, I don't see the problem.

The problem is that, because other MMOs use the terms, it causes people to have a pre-conceived notion of what that means for FFXIV tanks. However, with what we have been shown and from what little information we have, it seems that the MT and OT terms used in other games, do not necessarily translate well to what they intend for FFXIV tanks.

So, with FFXIV potentially making the MT and OT roles different compared to the majority of other MMOs, it might be a good idea to use different terms, just to prevent confusion.

[Pimsan20]

I think they should called it counter tank and debuff tanks while maintaining the ability to switch form off tank and main tank. Since based on what we know, only paladin and the new tank is a 'main tank' based job, so it will be off balance if only two of those job exist.

[Supersnow845]

I don’t know why you think that healers are any different

Shield and pure healing are old terms, I’ve been a shield healer main for like 20 years across different games

MT/OT are obvious in that they want that role to perform that action. Even if PLD is MT’ing because of counter damage it’s obvious that that means they want it to main tank, that’s as self explanatory as shield and pure healing

[Carighan]

The problem is that, because other MMOs use the terms, it causes people to have a pre-conceived notion of what that means for FFXIV tanks. However, with what we have been shown and from what little information we have, it seems that the MT and OT terms used in other games, do not necessarily translate well to what they intend for FFXIV tanks.

In what way do they not?

And I don't disagree that the terms could be better (after all we don't say main healer and off healer) either), but this particular part made me perk up.

After all, so far we have exactly 0 clue what will actually be different between the two sub-roles as they have not delineated what parts of the shown Paladin kit are there to enact the specific role. We can surmise that the counter might be, but we have no reason to assume it's the only part, and we also don't know whether, given its moderate strength, they even plan for a significant difference in the first place.

[Mikey_R]

In what way do they not?

And I don't disagree that the terms could be better (after all we don't say main healer and off healer) either), but this particular part made me perk up.

After all, so far we have exactly 0 clue what will actually be different between the two sub-roles as they have not delineated what parts of the shown Paladin kit are there to enact the specific role. We can surmise that the counter might be, but we have no reason to assume it's the only part, and we also don't know whether, given its moderate strength, they even plan for a significant difference in the first place.

We do not really know, that is the point. However, with players saying they do not want to OT, they want to MT, it shows there is that pre-conceived notion that only the MT is going to be the one taking hits and the OT will be stood at the side. We know this isn't going to be the case however. So there must be something, some idea, of what these terms mean that they are using to come to the conclusion, despite it having no basis in FFXIV.

But yes, all we know is what is on the slide, so people getting up in arms about this is completely illogical.

[Haventale]

I'm going to copy what I said in a different thread because I completely agree. The only problem is the names. The names are terrible.

The amount of people I've seen crying over the Evolved mode labels because their gamer pride is taking a hit, is downright comical. In practice it isn't going to make a drastic difference. There's always going to be single tank content, which means by definition each tank has to be able to handle adds and handle bosses. Nothing is going to change in that regard. By comparison the labels Regen and Shield healer aren't an issue, because it's just describing the primary way that they support the party. So these tank labels just need to change. SE needs to come up with two terms that clearly and simply define HOW these different tanks do their job. Like Counter and Aggressor, or Protector and Survivor or something, ya know? Clearly the devs have some way to differentiate these two categories of tanks. So many people are getting hung up on the terms main/off. They need create new terms to express what each category actually does differently.

As much as Astrologian is my favourite healer, I still think their decision to split the healers into Shield vs Regen was a good one in the long run. It gave them breathing room to start designing them in different directions. And at this point Sage and Scholar requires a fundamentally different mindset to supporting the party than playing White Mage and Astrologian. And I feel like that is very much a good thing. Every healer can do the same basic tasks, but have different styles of gameplay, which I think is at the core of what everyone wants.

Tanks have, ever since ShB, not had that. Three out of four tanks do the basically the exact same things in the same way. I started playing in Stormblood and mained Dark Knight, and I have always lamented how the changed my favourite job in ShB. Back then every tank felt quite different from each other and I loved it. Right now I’d say Paladin feels unique, but the other three feel basically identical. It seems like when there were only three tanks the devs could distinguish between them easily. But for whatever reason adding a fourth effed up their design and they’ve been floundering to come up with ideas on how to differentiate them ever since.

So personally, I think creating some kind of separation between them is absolutely necessary to give them a mental reset on how to approach tank design. It’s still not clear to me exactly how these two groups are different in practice, but I do know that these terms they’re using are a bad idea and are causing a needless headache. Or at least I really hope it’s needless and that they really have created a different way for each group to play and do their job.

[Moqi]

There are many crowns you can wear if your ego is hurt that you're not "main".

[Raraka]

It’s a strange choice of wording that I imagine certain people will use as an excuse to have a hissy fit because the WAR provoked after their 5th death in a normal trial. Maybe “counter tank” and “mitigation tank” would’ve gotten the idea across better.

If they don't make a name change from the great suggestions in this thread, I'll probably start using these 2 and hope it starts catching on with the people I come across.

+1

[Derio]

Unless DRK, GNB and WAR get some serious party mitigation tools added and another version of reprisal. Right now PLD is looking like the best OT option especially if the counter procs from intervention or cover.

[Jokerz_93]

I don’t mind to be the OT. Actually I prefer it most of the time.. the content will be closed with my damage dealt, not taken.

As it is now, MT’ing is just the guy who takes the punches. There’s no responsibility at all.

One side note: it makes me smile when that warrior jumps in, don’t say nothing apart from “MT”.
Then I watch them during the fight, all those moves and animations feel like they are quite angry…and committed to blow the boss to the stars.
I look up on my calculator and…”oh boy, that’s why I have to keep my shirk in cool-down” I think.
Same with PLDs, but at least they can keep aggro better that warriors.
GnBs are the chillest one.
Every time it’s like “I know you don’t want MT, neither do I. So what? Let’s do MT’ing a melee dps?”

Those who use provoke within rotation on a normal content are the worst of all, tho.