Genius Move from SE

[StarryVera]

My understanding is the new versions are aimed at being 16 buttons, which add job uniqueness and allow for skill expression again like we had in the past, except not clunky this time.

Except buttons don't = uniqueness, Evolved BRD is quite literally copy pasted Endwalker SMN. The entire job is revolving around collecting your 3 candies, then using a big attack. This is the type of job design they want to force us into for every job, first with SMN, then with MNK, now with everything. They are removing all uniqueness from jobs and taking anything unique they have about them away, where are BRD's DOTs and procs? BRD was already one of the more unique jobs the game had because of the songs not being directly aligned with the 2 mins, along with procs determining how you played your filler, it wasn't hard by any means, and yet they've gone and lobotomized that.

[Shadowshinra]

Except buttons don't = uniqueness, Evolved BRD is quite literally copy pasted Endwalker SMN. The entire job is revolving around collecting your 3 candies, then using a big attack. This is the type of job design they want to force us into for every job, first with SMN, then with MNK, now with everything. They are removing all uniqueness from jobs and taking anything unique they have about them away, where are BRD's DOTs and procs? BRD was already one of the more unique jobs the game had because of the songs not being directly aligned with the 2 mins, along with procs determining how you played your filler, it wasn't hard by any means, and yet they've gone and lobotomized that.

With current bard you still collect your three sour gummies and eat them to do a party buff, effectively it's the same but with the 2min change they swapped out the buff with attacks. At the end of the day it boils down to which looks more "fun" and to me that's new Bard, sure I also like current SMN which apparently isn't popular here but I've been an on again off again SMN main since 2.0 launch (Archer/Lancer main on my original 1.0 account if that means anything too)

[Valence]

With current bard you still collect your three sour gummies and eat them to do a party buff, effectively it's the same but with the 2min change they swapped out the buff with attacks. At the end of the day it boils down to which looks more "fun" and to me that's new Bard, sure I also like current SMN which apparently isn't popular here but I've been an on again off again SMN main since 2.0 launch (Archer/Lancer main on my original 1.0 account if that means anything too)

I'd tentatively agree but as I was pointed out in the DPS subforums, where have gone my damn rng and procs??? Are they trying to pull an AST or what? That's not acceptable whatsoever.

[StarryVera]

With current bard you still collect your three sour gummies and eat them to do a party buff, effectively it's the same but with the 2min change they swapped out the buff with attacks. At the end of the day it boils down to which looks more "fun" and to me that's new Bard, sure I also like current SMN which apparently isn't popular here but I've been an on again off again SMN main since 2.0 launch (Archer/Lancer main on my original 1.0 account if that means anything too)

Except that's the problem, you are saying you think Evolved BRD looks fun because it is similar to current SMN. That is a BAD THING that is the complete opposite of job identity that we have been asking for for years now. If we see more jobs during the media tour or even Berlin and they are anywhere similar to what we just saw which in reality was just melee SMN, Phys Ranged SMN, and the easiest job in the game being simplified more then we are in for a serious problem.

[Voidmage]

Except that's the problem, you are saying you think Evolved BRD looks fun because it is similar to current SMN. That is a BAD THING that is the complete opposite of job identity that we have been asking for for years now. If we see more jobs during the media tour or even Berlin and they are anywhere similar to what we just saw which in reality was just melee SMN, Phys Ranged SMN, and the easiest job in the game being simplified more then we are in for a serious problem.

You confuse job identity with complexity here.
SMN has a very good job identity, far better than it was in the past. It has a horrible job complexity though without a skill ceiling.

Both are different things that should be there at the same time in a job.

[StarryVera]

You confuse job identity with complexity here.

I'm not. SMN Job Identity is summoning, which it barely does. Most of its attacks come from the caster as different buttons that it presses with very few actually coming from the summons itself outside of Bahamut phase. BRDs Job Identity was dots and support, and seeing the dots have been the ONE thing it has kept all this time, it is very difficult to say that isn't part of its identity, and it is losing that come 8.0 almost entirely. (No, 3 second dots that only tick a single time is not enough to warrant "identity"). It's losing access to Minne on demand and Warden's Paeon, one might be niche but was still a night and day difference when it was useful. Perfect examples are M12S Doom Towers, and TEA. Minne is an incredibly useful tool especially in something like M12S Phase 1 where you want to use both mitigation and healing boosts separately because of the damage output of the fight to increase help for healers. This is removal of Identity. If DNC Shield Samba also gets the increased heal attached to it come 8.0, why are you running a BRD? There should be scenarios where some jobs play into a fights gimmick more than others, and what they currently showed does not align with that. Animations don't determine identity, playstyle does, and if every job is just boiled down to "collect the 3 gummies, do a big burst, repeat" then there is no job identity anymore.

[Voidmage]

I'm not. SMN Job Identity is summoning, which it barely does. Most of its attacks come from the caster as different buttons that it presses with very few actually coming from the summons itself outside of Bahamut phase. BRDs Job Identity was dots and support, and seeing the dots have been the ONE thing it has kept all this time, it is very difficult to say that isn't part of its identity, and it is losing that come 8.0 almost entirely. (No, 3 second dots that only tick a single time is not enough to warrant "identity"). It's losing access to Minne on demand and Warden's Paeon, one might be niche but was still a night and day difference when it was useful. Perfect examples are M12S Doom Towers, and TEA. Minne is an incredibly useful tool especially in something like M12S Phase 1 where you want to use both mitigation and healing boosts separately because of the damage output of the fight to increase help for healers. This is removal of Identity. If DNC Shield Samba also gets the increased heal attached to it come 8.0, why are you running a BRD? There should be scenarios where some jobs play into a fights gimmick more than others, and what they currently showed does not align with that. Animations don't determine identity, playstyle does, and if every job is just boiled down to "collect the 3 gummies, do a big burst, repeat" then there is no job identity anymore.

SMN has a good job identity. It summons primals that do a big attack, maybe not enough of them but it absolutely does what a SMN in this franchise does and no, it does not summon too little just too monotonous.

I don't talk about BRD or DNC here, why you would take one over the other or what is useful in TEA though I would agree that the jobs should have different tools for different situations that are close to their identity like the DRG high jump.
I am also not advocating for all jobs to turn into SMN, never did but job identity is not just playstyle but also animations, otherwise we can close the game because at the end of the day SMN and BLM do the same thing, namely damage numbers.

I would completely agree if you said the identity of SMN is not enough because it has not enough summons or that those summons should have different effects but that's all.
Edit:
I absolutely agree that SMN needs more and that the jobs definitely do need more complexity again but job identity should not be how jobs perform in some Ultimate or Savage fight. That should be a bonus for outside the box thinking.
Job identity begins far lower.