Evolved WHM concerns

[Azurarok]

tbf we knew they were going to take the High route since EW with BLM using High FireII and BlizzardII. YoshiP mentioning he didn't want to use weirder suffixes in the JP version like -gyo -za and so on after -ga and -ja.
And in terms of Final Fantasy WHM, at least Cure will feel worth using instead of being the bottom of the barrel option.


Unrelated, I did recently notice that Holy doesn't have an mp cost on it so something's clearly different about it and how I'd feel about the job would probably change one way or the other based on that.

[Carighan]

Unrelated, I did recently notice that Holy doesn't have an mp cost on it so something's clearly different about it and how I'd feel about the job would probably change one way or the other based on that.

This makes sense as it seems all damage skills are now with baked in %-AoE.

Which also makes sense, as FF14 unlike some other MMOs utilizes no mezzes or such.

[Azurarok]

Right, if they made it some powerful attack spell that has some special requirement to use effectively I'd be for it.

If it's just been diminished to an aoe stun that's damage neutral with glare I'd be pretty disappointed

[LililyLily]

I don't understand why they want to make WHM easier. They don't do that for the other ARR classes. I've never heard Yoshi-P say that Monk needs to be the easy dps, so why does WHM get that treatment?

It is especially annoying since WHM has the best lore of all of the healer classes. It was literally created to fight against the Mhach BLMs. A war which ended in a calamity, causing white magic to be banned, with Padjai as the only allowed practitioners. On top of that, they have ties to earth, water, air, and light magics along with blood magic and necromancy. WHMs, based on lore alone, should be the most terrifying healers out of the four. A class, that in other games, is the faith-based healer (which is arguably more Astro's territory in this game, due to their connection to the Twelve) instead is wiling to turn to "darker" magics in order to win. The blood lily only becomes available once us or our companions get healed by us enough times. Which would imply it's our blood and their blood used to create the lily.

Instead of using any of that to influence WHM's identity they have decided to double down on WHM being the easy class and on it being the gcd healer.
Honestly, it just feels like a slap in the face at this point.

Evolved mode could have been used to explore into the lore of all of the classes further but instead they are just using it to dumb everything down.

[Supersnow845]

Everyone all like “SMN is better because it acts like games restricted by 1980’s hardware” till every skill old WHM’s used to have is deleted from the game and then suddenly it becomes “WHM has an identity in 14 and that’s all that matters, its identity is “I got a lobotomy””

[ReynTime]

tbf we knew they were going to take the High route since EW with BLM using High FireII and BlizzardII. YoshiP mentioning he didn't want to use weirder suffixes in the JP version like -gyo -za and so on after -ga and -ja.
And in terms of Final Fantasy WHM, at least Cure will feel worth using instead of being the bottom of the barrel option.


Unrelated, I did recently notice that Holy doesn't have an mp cost on it so something's clearly different about it and how I'd feel about the job would probably change one way or the other based on that.

The suffixes "gyo" and "za" don't even exist in Final Fantasy. Za is strictly a KH thing that only lasted more than 1 game because of the localization ignoring the JP original.
It's default -> ra -> da -> ga -> ja. And they could have gone the smart route that XI took, by using the suffixes to indicate how the spell worked (ST, AoE, centered AoE, etc) with the roman numerals indicating 'tier'. Which would make sense considering how much this game takes straight out of XI.

I don't understand why they want to make WHM easier. They don't do that for the other ARR classes. I've never heard Yoshi-P say that Monk needs to be the easy dps, so why does WHM get that treatment?

It is especially annoying since WHM has the best lore of all of the healer classes. It was literally created to fight against the Mhach BLMs. A war which ended in a calamity, causing white magic to be banned, with Padjai as the only allowed practitioners. On top of that, they have ties to earth, water, air, and light magics along with blood magic and necromancy. WHMs, based on lore alone, should be the most terrifying healers out of the four. A class, that in other games, is the faith-based healer (which is arguably more Astro's territory in this game, due to their connection to the Twelve) instead is wiling to turn to "darker" magics in order to win. The blood lily only becomes available once us or our companions get healed by us enough times. Which would imply it's our blood and their blood used to create the lily.

Instead of using any of that to influence WHM's identity they have decided to double down on WHM being the easy class and on it being the gcd healer.
Honestly, it just feels like a slap in the face at this point.

Evolved mode could have been used to explore into the lore of all of the classes further but instead they are just using it to dumb everything down.

CNJ/WHM used to have more spells that were very directly water and earth coded before Stormblood. Fluid Aura, Stoneskin (understandably redundant because of SCH), etc. Now their fantasy is angelic healer using holy power of light like the healers in 99% of the RPGs.

[Azurarok]

The suffixes "gyo" and "za" don't even exist in Final Fantasy. Za is strictly a KH thing that only lasted more than 1 game because of the localization ignoring the JP original.
It's default -> ra -> da -> ga -> ja. And they could have gone the smart route that XI took, by using the suffixes to indicate how the spell worked (ST, AoE, centered AoE, etc) with the roman numerals indicating 'tier'. Which would make sense considering how much this game takes straight out of XI.

The -gyo one is specifically a running joke in XIV (YoshiP's joked about it numerous times), brought up in one of the books lying around Gubal hard. Also you're the first one I've seen say they should've stuck to the roman numerals

CNJ/WHM used to have more spells that were very directly water and earth coded before Stormblood. Fluid Aura, Stoneskin (understandably redundant because of SCH), etc. Now their fantasy is angelic healer using holy power of light like the healers in 99% of the RPGs.

It's likely this is one of the reasons why they're adding action skins and we'd probably see stuff like Stone over Glare and AeroIII over Sanctuary. I'd much rather they actually make those skills come back and build mechanics around them, but I've been shot down by folks who prefer the current light/flower mage because it's cuter.

They've tried too many things with healers to fully satisfy everyone who played them and they also keep trying to attract a different crowd every iteration because each one seems to also lose players

[ForsakenRoe]

Also you're the first one I've seen say they should've stuck to the roman numerals

I also think that, if they were going to copy FF11 so hard originally that it almost killed the game, it's weird that they didn't copy THAT aspect of FF11

In some regions, they use Numerals, in others they use the traditional suffixes, and in French specifically, they have an entirely new system of 'Extra, Mega, Giga'. And then for High Fire, it's 'Extra Feu Majeure'. Since FF11 was such a heavy inspiration for this game's original form, taking the system from FF11 for Spell Power/Naming probably would have made a lot more sense as it'd have kept every region's naming conventions identical.

As an example, WHM has Cure3, which is weaker than Cure2. Or in JP, it's Curaga and Cura, but both systems imply that Cure3 is stronger than Cure2, which it only is when it's hitting multiple targets. But in neither version, does the name convey that 3/Aga is AOE, and 2/Ra is ST.

With FFXI naming conventions, however, WHM would have Cure, Cure II, and then Curaga. Numeral denotes the 'rank', -Aga denotes that it's AOE.

The best example is BLM. It had to have an entire new category created, because they ran out of suffixes in JP (High X). With the 11 system, instead of Fire I/III/IV for ST and Fire II/High Fire II for AOE, they'd have Fire, Fire II, Fire III (leaving room for a hypothetical Fire IV to be added later) in Single Target, and for AOE they'd have Firaga, and Firaga II.

PCT's AOE combo would be Firaga in Red/Watera in Blue etc. instead of 'Fire II in Red', which sounds a bit less silly. Same with RDM's VerThunder II becoming VerThundaga. Or BLM's Thunder II/IV being Thundaga/Thundaga II

Then, when you get to that one book in Gubal Library that mentions that the Amdapori were debating the name of a potent new Cure spell, and settled on Cure IV, you'd go 'wow I didn't even know there was a Cure III, let alone a Cure IV! Those Amdapori guys must have been crazy strong, I guess that explains how they were partially responsible for a calamity'