Paladin Evolved (Dev Panel US Fan Fest)

[Mikey_R]

First caveat to get out of the way, this is very early dev info and is likely to be changed before release.

With that out of the way, I want to go over Paladin Evolved as shown in the Dev Panel that happened at the US Fan Fest.

Some basic things across all jobs:
-Massive reduction in buttons, aiming for about 16 in total
-Combo consolidation, that 3 part combo, now only takes up 1 button
-Actions change dependant on different circumstances

Dev Panel for timed for Paladin

First thing to mention, I'm not going to list every action that was removed, just assume if it isn't mentioned, it is gone.

First things first, whilst crude, there are 2 gauges that fill. The 'Defence' gauge and 'Honor' gauge, each one having 2 circles next to them. They both seem to build up over time, with Defence filling every 20 seconds and Honor filling every 40. There is also a 'Crest' text, but nothing changes there at all.

Going through combat, the first thing that is shown is the basic combo. Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Divine Authority (new action with new animation).

This gives the Paladin the Expiacion Avowed buff which changes the 'Continuation' button to Expiacion. This buff lasts 30 seconds.

Next that is shown is a new action 'Divine Justice' (using the Holy Spirit icon as a placeholder). When cast on an enemy, it used Holy Spirit, when used on an ally, it casts Clemency.

Next is Imperator. This allows the use of the magic blade combo, Blade of Faith > Blade of Truth > Blade of Valor. Imperator itself seems to have a very short cooldown, however, it does use up a stack of 'Honor Gauge'. It also gives a 'Divine Might' buff. Upon using Blade of Valor, you get Blade of Honor ready buff, which changes the 'Continuation' button to Blade of Honor. They do not show what the Divine Might buff does, but later in the panel, you can surmise that it upgrades 'Divine Judgement' to Confeiteor when attacking an enemy.

Next, Holy Sheltron and a new action 'Answering Strike. Starting With Sheltron, upon use, you use a stack of 'Defence' and you get a buff called 'Surcoat of Satisfaction' for 4 seconds, After 4 seconds, the buff changes to 'Surcoat of Answer' for another 4 seconds. This is related to 'Answering Strike' as it is a counter move. If you block an attack, you can use 'Answering Strike'. The potency of Answering Strike is increased if you block during that first buff, 'Surcoat of Satisfaction' (it was also renamed to 'Satisfaction' with a slightly different animation. I do not know how much stronger it is meant to be as the 'stronger' one done less damage than the weaker one, however, that is the intention as they described. Upon using the counter, the Paladin also gets a buff for 15 seconds with the same name as the attack. It has the current Holy Sheltron regen icon, however, there was no regen effect.

Next, Passage of Arms, mostly the same. The only clear difference is it now gives a buff called 'Gathering Round' for 30 seconds. This is a new action that replaces Passage of Arms and seems to be a heal on the party.

Next, they use Divine Veil and Hallowed Ground, no noticeable changes there.

Provoke is next. This is another action that changes dependant on target. Enemy is Provoke, party member is Shirk. It also has 2 stacks and has a cooldown of 10 seconds. When using Provoke, you get a buff for 10 seconds, no idea what it does but it has the Iron Will icon. It does not seem to increase enmity gain (shown later).

Intervene (called 'Intercession' in the panel), gap closer on enemy, on an ally, it gives Cover. Notably, it done no damage.

Shield Lob, Shield Lob at far range, Shield Bash at close range, still has the stun for 6 seconds. Notably here, the effects seem to imply they are AoE.

A bit later, they use Holy Sheltron on an ally with the Intervention effects. This gave a similar buff to Holy Sheltron, Shield of Satisfaction > Shield of Answer. Likely the same effect as the Holy Sheltron.

Those are the main points to take away from the panel, apart from the fact they are bringing back main and off tanks. Main tanks are 'skilled at taking direct damage' and have 'actions to counter enemy attacks'. Off tanks are 'Skilled at lowering damage' and have 'Actions to lower enemy damage'. Paladin and the new tank job are main tanks, with the Dark Knight, Warrior and Gunbreaker filling in the Off tank role.

One of the goals of the 'evolved' jobs is to be much more flexible, and I do think they have achieved this. Also remembering that there is no 2 minute meta to contend with, you are free to sculpt the rotation around the fight, mainly the use of Imperator for those disconnects. My only worry is that it is too simple, however, without getting my hands on it and playing it in content, it will be hard to judge, however, I am willing to give it a good go, especially since this seems to be the direction they want to take the jobs in. If I were to describe this, I would call it cautiously optimistic.

SO, what is everyone's thoughts/opinions about what we have seen?

[Sazuzaki]

Personally, I love it and I was not expecting it at all. A counter-based/perfect block playstyle fits Paladin very well and directly addressed my main concern of them prioritizing function over fun. Though I am worried about possible situations where Reborn players might get barred, I'm ultimately looking forward to what they're cooking up. Haven't felt this hyped for XIV in a LONG time.

[ZaqueXIII]

It seems that their concept of evolved jobs is to be more focused on job identity and a more active game play feel.

My major concern is that since it is such a revolutionary change effectively killing any concept of Macroplay for Microplay we will lose a great amount strategic depth from the game. For all the whining and issues it brought the two minute window built a strong foundation for much of the organized/higher end content in the game both on the player and dev side. Without getting my hands on it, I cant say for certain but if the implications of what was shown in the Dev panel today are anything to go off of there will be little concern or care shown towards doing much aside from pressing the glowing buttons.

For paladin specifically, I worry with a counter there doesn't exist a proper balanced state. Lets say that the counter is a DPS positive move, now every fight with paladin is an optimization to get as many perfect counters as possible meaning that your defensive tool is now a purely offensive tool not to mention you are just as macro restricted as with the 2 minutes if not more. If it is DPS neutral then sure it might be a cool move but why use it when your regular damage ability does as much, meaning you dont really get rewarded for doing something "Correct" so much as you are not punished and get a flashy animation to break up your combo. If it is DPS negative then why bother using it at all, it will still serve a defensive function but then you pretty much just ignore the proc and carry on.

I don't wanna yuck anyone's yum, and I love how many of the jobs currently function in PVP which I think is a rough baseline of what we might reasonably expect to see in Evolved jobs. That said, what was shown today I think is woefully behind what I would hope we get in the coming expansion. I really hope the Dev team is actively searching feedback and iterating on this system because I want this game to be the best it can.

[Ahmose]

I think the idea of the counter could be neat, but for a very different game than FFXIV. Inside FFXIV it feels like a bad idea to me as it was presented. As ZaqueXIII says, if it's dps positive it's something you then NEED to do. Optimally enough to keep it from overcapping. Given that the resource seemed to generate every 20 seconds, that sounds like a bad time to me. Obviously some of the specifics could change but I think the idea is not something that sounds fun.

[Mikey_R]

I do think the counter has to be DPS positive for it to matter, how much is yet to be seen. However, looking back at the panel, and the damage done, The counters done ~57K and 50K and Blade of Faith done 71K, so, I suspect it will sit somewhere in the, stronger than the filler, but weaker than the burst. However, we do know damage values are scuffed, so where the stronger version actually lands is anyone's guess.

We also don't know how much of a defensive benefit Holy Sheltron will provide. The decaying buff stays even if you do proc the counter and it does reduce the damage further based on the initial buff, Surcoat of Satisfaction, which looked to do about 20% less damage. This is ontop of the Block, which, in the demo, was 16%. It is worth noting that enemy tank buster was chunking about 25% of the Paladin's HP after the stronger Holy Sheltron, so it might be the case that attacks in general are stronger so a more continued use of Holy Sheltron to soften the damage between the big attacks is also planned.

[Carighan]

My major concern is that since it is such a revolutionary change effectively killing any concept of Macroplay for Microplay we will lose a great amount strategic depth from the game.

Interesting, because right now I feel the game has ~0 strategic depth to its gameplay, and that is in fact the core issue forcing their hand in doing a full class-rework, and frankly should have ~3 expansions ago.

[ZaqueXIII]

Interesting, because right now I feel the game has ~0 strategic depth to its gameplay, and that is in fact the core issue forcing their hand in doing a full class-rework, and frankly should have ~3 expansions ago.

I'd be curious to know a more refined version of this opinion. For my mind; having a worked out rotation, coordinating buffs, coordinating mitigation, and even making decisions on which abilities to burn/when to line up with both fights and compositions all factor into the current strategic gameplay.

With the changes present these arent outright gone however; the devs seem to want to not feel like they have to have bosses ocassionaly wait around/work down time into fights, the proposed system throws basically all buffs out the window, the recycle rate on many of the abilities was in general less than a minute meaning. All of those to me speak to a system where you are only ever concerned about your individual abilities and pressing them as much as possible.

Even if a strategy is solved or optimal it doesn't mean that its not still a strategy, I think everyone wanted something new and for the most part many want to blame the legacy system and 2 minute buffs. I think that while they weren't perfect the 2 minute buffs made an effective law/loop that even the dev panel showed was something that they wanted to account for from their side as well, like a hand shake agreement on how we played the game. So given that its difficult from the demonstration to see how removing the foundation of such a long standing system will allow for the same level of depth. of course this all remains to be seen as they iterate on it and we get closer to Evercold.

[Jeeqbit]

Definitely gonna be using Evolved!

[Sazuzaki]

I worry with a counter there doesn't exist a proper balanced state. Lets say that the counter is a DPS positive move, now every fight with paladin is an optimization to get as many perfect counters as possible meaning that your defensive tool is now a purely offensive tool

I mean, yeah that's the point. For a game that crowns DPS above all, mitigating should directly reward you with more damage and you should be optimizing to mitigate as much as possible as a tank. TBN is already controversial for being all risk and no reward, and while I don't mind it in its current state, I can understand the people who do. I will say that this will separate good PLDs away from bad PLDs, but I don't think it'll be anything that'll make or break a DPS check. There's still plenty of unknowns but I trust in the team to strike a good balance with all they've learned over the years.

[Carighan]

I'd be curious to know a more refined version of this opinion. For my mind; having a worked out rotation, coordinating buffs, coordinating mitigation, and even making decisions on which abilities to burn/when to line up with both fights and compositions all factor into the current strategic gameplay.

Interesting, to me this is all stuff that someone else has solved for me. Now of course, lacking true randomization this cannot really be solved, but this leads me to the crux of the issue:

If the fight is to be static (fixed sequencing with fixed timings) and my job is to be static (fixed sequencing with fixed timings) then at the very least reduce the number of buttons I press in a 100% rote rotation. There's no reason to press 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 if I could just press 1 instead, both are... mental dead weight. They're busywork. They constitute no actual gameplay.

Ignoring of course the fact that if I play tank, I'm not even interested in having interesting DPS gameplay, I want interesting tank gameplay.

Does the new implementation truly improve any of this? Not really, from what I'm seen. But at the very least it's more honest: If you got nothing interesting to add, at least don't add filler spam instead! I'm hyped anyways as the shown abilities look worlds better than the 12 things they're removing for it, even put together. Like all jobs in FFXIV Paladin would benefit massively from strong randomization, but of course the devs are utterly unwilling to do that. Lacking that, at least having a very reduced and hence each-ability-is-actually-meaningful-individually set of abilities IS a huge huge boon.