Thread: Patch 7.5 Discussion Thread

Overall, I'm not feeling as interested with this latest patch for FL, no clue what direction they are going with it either, so I will probably just take a break from that for now.

Thing i don't get, is that there hasn't been any explanation or discussion from them, either prior or after, as to why they made this change? I don't recall hearing anything before the patch notes. There's nothing in the specific pvp changes, where it discusses why they make changes to jobs or role actions. Like, what were they hoping to actually achieve? Not what we are interpreting or guessing at. What actually is their logic, for this change?

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Lolwut? This change absolutely benefits premades more than ever, making them even more cancerous because there's no longer anything to even remotely stop them once they get rolling (which can happen as early as the first 2 minutes and then its GG for the remaining 6-8 minutes).

To simply put, I am one of those players people that "Knock" because of experience, adaptability, and strong fundamentals (positioning, timing, map awareness)
Do I like the change?
Not really. It’s a nuisance at best, an inconvenience.
An obstacle?
Hardly.
There are two types of players this change really punishes.

First, the PvE roulette crowd.
And no, I’m not going to pretend I feel bad for them.
This is the natural consequence of treating Frontline as nothing more than a tomestone farm.
I won’t go too deep into this as they often lack of respect of PvP
If they still choose not to improve then they are the prey for the PvPer.
Brutal truth: they will always be prey to actual PvPers, with or without Battle High.

Second, the mediocre players sitting on ranged jobs, spamming AoE and padding damage while fishing for kills.
They understand PvP at a surface level, but they’re obsessed with inflated numbers and K/D on the scoreboard rather than actual impact.

With Battle High no longer dropping on death, melee jobs now have more room to scale and stay relevant.
On NA/EU especially, melee roles tend to be played by more experienced players, the dynamic has shifted.
They no longer hold the range superiority
Hunters and prey have effectively swapped roles.

A level 5 Battle High melee will consistently outperform a level 5 Battle High mediocre ranged player.
That’s just the reality of the current meta.
To restate my position: this change is a nuisance.
I don’t particularly like it, but it doesn’t meaningfully affect me.

On the positive side (at least for NA/EU), players are now forced to coordinate more whether they like it or not.
And the previously unhealthy melee:ranged imbalance is finally being addressed.

As for your fear of premades, honestly, that’s overblown.
It’s just coordinated play.
You’re not the only one solo queuing, and not everyone is afraid of going up against organized groups.

I've played a number of matches with the changes now and personally I'm not a fan. Feels like a lot of the strategy has been removed from the mode.

Originally Posted by Scintilla

Firstly, my scenario was actually based more on solo play as that is what I do most. Secondly, the maximum party size that can queue together for FL is 4 players.

However, if you want to apply it to premades: "Hobbling" would be win-trading. It would be me intentionally placing team members in enemy teams to actively sabotage them.

Q-syncing is a thing though, and certain PVP groups thrive on it by getting an 8-man stack into one team.

And sabotage isn't out of the question either, given the number of commanders I've seen who actively lead their team into defeat and then have a good laugh about it.
+++

But the point remains that the core issue is skill difference. No changes to FL that you make will alter that

Exactly, there's nothing I can do about being put against or on teams with premades, I win or lose based on which team had the better stack and nothing more. I could bust my ass or AFK and the outcome will still be the same.
+++

Defeatism and, yes, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You believe there's no hope, so you give up.
The outcome? You lose. That attitude just snowballs - because you didn't try, the players on your team who are determined are having to work harder to make the difference for your lack of effort, hindering their chances of success.

So, in effect, you'd be the one doing the hobbling...

Continue to try and there's always that chance. Stop trying and you're only guaranteed to fail.

I'll fail regardless of trying though, no amount of effort will change that, and my contribution however much or little will never matter. 20 kills or 20 deaths, same difference, and after years of putting up with the mode getting worse ever since Dawntrail launch I'm done caring. It can be second monitor content while I do/watch something else, and I understand now why so many others give up and stop trying too.

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

snip

You keep saying there is nothing you can do. BS. You can make a difference. Premades are not insurmountable. You can counter them, but it takes effort. If you queue in with a defeatist attitude, you make things harder for yourself right from the start.

I hate these BH changes, but you sitting there and going "well, i'm just not even going to make an effort. i'm going to just have it on the second monitor" is why premades have as much success as they do.

Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

You keep saying there is nothing you can do. BS. You can make a difference. Premades are not insurmountable. You can counter them, but it takes effort.

Saying I can make a difference/they can be countered is the real BS I've been buying into for all these years, it just took the BH changes to finally shatter that delusion.

I don't know what their intentions were when they made these changes, but it certainly wasn't to encourage better play or increase interest, did the exact opposite for me actually. Premades were already difficult enough to play around while still having enjoyable or viable matches, now its just impossible because there's no stopping or even catching up to a permanent BH5 wall that will always outplay me unless my team has the better premade. I can get stomped or I can be spoon-fed, but I personally DO NOT MATTER towards the outcome so it doesn't matter what I do anymore.

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Saying I can make a difference/they can be countered is the real BS I've been buying into for all these years, it just took the BH changes to finally shatter that delusion.

I don't know what their intentions were when they made these changes, but it certainly wasn't to encourage better play or increase interest, did the exact opposite for me actually. Premades were already difficult enough to play around while still having enjoyable or viable matches, now its just impossible because there's no stopping or even catching up to a permanent BH5 wall that will always outplay me unless my team has the better premade. I can get stomped or I can be spoon-fed, but I personally DO NOT MATTER towards the outcome so it doesn't matter what I do anymore.

You can’t wake someone who’s pretending to be asleep and you’re a pretty good example of that.
Look at how JP and TC players deal with premades or commanders.
They don’t just run headfirst into coordinated groups.
They disrupt them.
You’ll see tanks and healers, usually paired with a SAM, intentionally pushing into enemy spawn as bait to pull attention away from the main fight.

Why?
Because no premade functions well when a third or even half of an alliance gets dragged out of position chasing distractions.
A premade doesn’t guarantee a win.
It just makes coordinated play more impactful.

And now, with Battle High no longer dropping on death, what’s actually stopping die-hard players from leaning even harder into that kind of disruption strategy?
You keep saying you’ve tried everything, but from my perspective, all you’ve really done is complain about premades instead of adapting.

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Saying I can make a difference/they can be countered is the real BS I've been buying into for all these years, it just took the BH changes to finally shatter that delusion.

I don't know what their intentions were when they made these changes, but it certainly wasn't to encourage better play or increase interest, did the exact opposite for me actually. Premades were already difficult enough to play around while still having enjoyable or viable matches, now its just impossible because there's no stopping or even catching up to a permanent BH5 wall that will always outplay me unless my team has the better premade. I can get stomped or I can be spoon-fed, but I personally DO NOT MATTER towards the outcome so it doesn't matter what I do anymore.

Playing paladin, monk, even bard if you actually use your abilities. You can be disruptive and make a difference for your team. I queue solo and as part of a premade teams. It is infinitely harder to win, when we are stacked with players like you, who just give up and dont make any effort. Playing against premades on solo queue, yes, it is 100% possible to disrupt them.

But sure, give up and blame premades