Thread: Patch 7.5 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Valence

Before that patch, could you elaborate on why you'd not use Swift on melee? I personally found it extremely convenient to be able to do whatever I wanted and get away with it on specific jobs. Especially handy to dodge premade attempts or certain LBs used by competent players to ruin your BH.
But, I'm mostly a CC player, and not especially a FL tryhard by any means. I've always found smite pretty overblown for what it does—but I do use it on certain melees that already have escape options and a lack of offensive power like RPR.

All the melee have great escapes, yeah. Even as a MNK or VPR, if you are ever in trouble and don't have a line of sight to someone to zip towards, it was probably not a fight to be in. For dealing with cc, it's ideal to use guard or purify before it hits, rather than after. SAM and VPR even get a free ticket out in their base kits.

Not that Swift isn't useful per se, but I'd gladly spend the MP to get in or out and have a tool that either gives me an early BH curve or, in the case of SAM especially, ridiculous sustain. Just millions and millions of healing, which now has a damage boost for some reason.

Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

They're all always close. There was once a time when you could have blowout victories in this mode, which were especially good because they were quicker. Now, victories are scarce and are always nail-biters, if not flukes.

Solo queue, meanwhile, is a waste of time for the win achievements. Premade leaders effortlessly get 200 wins a month. Pity they're all private friend groups so you won't be joining any.

I used to find that probably 3-4 out of 5 matches, you would have one team who would get picked on at the beginning, who would almost never make a comeback. Usually, one of the other teams would end up just mindlessly continuing the attack (Even if being asked repeatedly to stop), while the 3rd ran around and captured nodes for an easy win.

While it is still early, I would say that this kind of match has been closer to 1-2 out of 5 for me this week.

A good premade would obviously throw this out of the window, but I think that will always be the case. I also think that I probably don't run into them as often due to the times that I play, which could be a pretty big factor.

Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

I'd love to find these games where you guys are getting close fought matches down to the wire. Mostly, they have been blowouts with it being incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to claw back advantage from any team that gets to an initial lead. You can claw back some points, from kills. But you can't really take any advantage off the lead team. You chip their points, they just come right back, with their full BH and unload their reset abilities on you.

I am starting to wonder if a lot more of this is down to time of day and DC than I would have expected? I play on Crystal, usually for a few hours after daily reset, but jump over to Primal at times as you do tend to find a bit more coordination there.

It is also making me wonder how the move to cross-region queues will impact things.

I thought about it and I don't even think the BH change is good for the base player. If something is guaranteed, it stops having meaning. Think they felt happier getting it when it was less common. In my 3k matches, I just obtain it early and never have to think about it. For a lot of players, it felt like an achievement. In short, I don't think this is a good change for anyone.

the new dye stink we use to get all colors now just white and now they force you to buy green cans = unacceptable

Originally Posted by Scintilla

From what I understand, the approach to PvP within the JP community and the EU community are vastly different.

Oh I know they have their differing playstyle. If you go and run a translator over it though that's the ????

They sound even more scared to play melee than over here, and they have a strong preference for ranged. Still, the lack of confidence in their words for the melee position is perplexing. Could be a translation limitation though.

I've observed that their matches can have rather low overall damage output lately (or last I peeked anyway), which only emphasizes how little slugfest-ish PvP they do outside of what commander-san demands of them. It's one very quick clash and leave on maps like SR.

When I've participated myself, I've been delighted by their bemusement observing my madcap roamer antics, and the confusion is mutual when sometimes they just... don't seem to know what to do about my hyper aggression and I'm just wondering wth is going on lol. This was mostly on BR though; I only really went over there for BR (besides arena) after hearing they prefer to do splits on bases, many moons ago. I really don't like how they play the other maps, though I have rolled with them some.

I mean, respect to the overclocked hive cohesion (on average) I guess, but it's just my polar opposite. I enjoy more chaos, and I don't especially care to be directed around like a drone. It's not fun to me to do stuff by exhaustively basic rote on cooldown, then be idle all other times. Also the ping...

tl;dr Reading that they like the changes based on the spooks around playing melee is just sorta disheartening, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Before that patch, could you elaborate on why you'd not use Swift on melee?

Yep. Yep.

(Although I did use Swift on MNK as standard, never did use it on anything else)

[also going to spoiler this reply rather than make two separate posts]

SAM Bloodbath - old synergy from ShB. Chiten reflect procs under it are very strong and I've survived some pretty hard focus even with a MNK LB thrown in. I've had far greater LB yields than with using Swift. Escape principle is simple: since you're leaning heavily into Bloodbath to heal, you'll have more MP to stack Resilience against Meikyo immunity overlap. Really just depends how well you use those windows. You can rather easily stroll away tbqh. Just don't overstay, be aware of your remaining options, and be aware of just what's looking at you that can do a thing that's not normal cc. (Also it was stronger in previous patches where it was 6 secs, then 4 secs, then 5 secs now).

RPR Smite - RPR has literally wraith-like elusiveness on a short cooldown that allows you to pop in, execute, and return over a distance of up to 30y. Also extra damage under its damage compiler Death Warrant. No-brainer choice.

DRG Bloodbath - my least played melee. The +damage they added beefs up LB further though and ofc gives DRG a bit more sustain than they would normally have.

NIN Smite - incredibly oppressive when LB is ready in being able to easily edge HP into the threshold near instantly following a no shot attack (or intentionally combo'd). The fact that it even has 10y range and ofc resets on kill before the patch as well. This is what prompted my reaction, since now not even a pre-emptive Guard is that useful against it.

VPR Bloodbath/Smite - when native Backlash leech is somehow not good enough? Bloodbath got ya back. Smite I stopped using as much after the attack buff on Bloodbath got added to it, but Smite was just to increase overall lethality and also taking advantage of World-swallower's debuff.

All in all, if you had confidence in how to get out of a situation, it was better to take something other than Swift imo. Still is.

Originally Posted by Valence

SAM has zero escape too though. You just have to hope that an enemy is somehow behind you and allows you to jump at them which is a big if. So what do you do once you're out of bloodbath? If you start running you can't really bloodbath anymore. If bloodbath is over, what do you do to get out?

I don't know if it's also because I play a lot of tank so I am just used to it, but an extra CD that gives you cc immunity is pretty damn good for getting out. You'll be staying in and dealing more damage for longer with Bloodbath.