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  1. #1
    Player
    Latorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    16
    Character
    Latorn Lorokar
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Not losing BH on death... the single worst change I've seen to Frontlines in my last 7 years of playing...

    Skilled play should be rewarded in PvP, what were they thinking???
    (4)

  2. #2
    Player
    echo78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    91
    Character
    Echo Skyla
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Whoever came up with the idea of not losing BH on death should never be allowed near frontlines balancing again.

    The change to battle high in 7.2 was dumb enough. Now they are just straight up trolling the few people that actually enjoy frontlines. What a shame.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    ChrysOCE's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    552
    Character
    D'ark Bunny
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Played a few more matches. Its an absolute mess. You can just throw yourself at the enemy and there's no real downside. I cant see how this change benefits casual players. You see the same people who didnt do anything before, dont do anything now. People in matches still with bh1-2. How?
    And now it's even more chance of lopsided matches, cause the enemy doesnt lose bh, you can't claw back anything to try and take back any kind of advantage over an enemy team.
    It is really interesting that there is nothing in the patch notes explainer, about why they made this change. I haven't seen anything from them. What possessed them to do this?
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Scintilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    262
    Character
    Taeryn Bishop
    World
    Alpha
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    What possessed them to do this?
    I can only guess the intent was:

    Many complaints arise about team imbalances with one coordinated team steam-rolling the others. The coordinated team spending the entire game on BH5, and rapidly regaining it if they do die, while the two other alliances can find it more difficult to gain and keep BH because of the clear ability difference results in them consistently being wiped.

    Whether BH is kept after death or halved as it used to be, a coordinated team will likely remain BH5 regardless. I can only presume the change was to try to help those less able teams to continue to build their BH despite a wipe and stand more of a chance in countering an aggressive enemy team, which in theory, would erase the problem mentioned above.

    Unfortunately, theory doesn't always work in practice. The fact that a huge proportion of players still end the game with low BH despite no way of losing it says it all... it's not just the loss of BH following mistakes/poor play that causes the imbalance, but a lack of effort in getting it in the first place! And, yes, it's not a 'magic fix' by any means:
    On the one hand, it's reduces the repeated punishment on solo tank/melee players who try to engage in PvP but are consistently abandoned by their passive, predominantly ranged, team. On the other, it just encourages an overly reckless playstyle - what is there to lose? At most you'll have a minute out while you run to catch up with the fight location, but all your cd times will be reset so...
    Again, on the one hand it stops less coordinated teams being so heavily punished after a wipe from a strong team, allowing them to keep their BH and potentially regroup and launch a counter attack.
    On the other, now killing one of the players from those strong, coordinated teams won't weaken them any.

    Certainly an odd and totally unexpected change, I'll agree. For now, I'll just see how it goes. But I suppose there was some kind of logic behind the change, albeit a somewhat flawed one
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Avarence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2025
    Posts
    15
    Character
    Avarence Light
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Scintilla View Post
    I can only guess the intent was:

    Many complaints arise about team imbalances with one coordinated team steam-rolling the others. The coordinated team spending the entire game on BH5, and rapidly regaining it if they do die, while the two other alliances can find it more difficult to gain and keep BH because of the clear ability difference results in them consistently being wiped.
    1) The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Once you recognize a Comm or premade, your tactics switch from 1v1v1 to more 1v2. Even if only 8 people on your team recognize this, you can go harass the Commander for a possible 24 vs 24+8.

    2) A single form of delay or disruption of the premade's engage (So your team gets that first moment to turn or run. Yes you might die for it. -8 is better then -24)

    3) If you're just solo countering; Be a scout, or player(s) disrupting the Comm team when they fight the 3rd team. So they cant farm in peace.

    If they want to cheese, they dont get to play
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player
    Scintilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    262
    Character
    Taeryn Bishop
    World
    Alpha
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Avarence View Post
    1) The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Once you recognize a Comm or premade, your tactics switch from 1v1v1 to more 1v2. Even if only 8 people on your team recognize this, you can go harass the Commander for a possible 24 vs 24+8.
    No doubt, take the chances you can and flank 2v1. I won't do the "I don't care who wins, so long as they lose" and throw the game, but I'll happily 2v1 an alliance if they're clearly dominating and will win unless they're kept in check. It's only fair! We want to win as much as they do and they'd show us no mercy.

    I completely agree with everything you said and I'll regularly look to counter troublesome players. It's just sad that so few players share that mindset...
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    Guesswhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    558
    Character
    Aira Comet
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 100
    Worst change since YouTube put two unskippable ads before a 12-second video.
    Complete brainrot.
    Haven't played for months and return to this sheeet.

    Once again catering to no-skill players.
    (8)

  8. #8
    Player
    Batbrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    398
    Character
    Gotham City
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 100
    I dont mind the changes at all. I'm a little biased though because I usually get BH pretty quick, so for me its mostly convenient that now I wont lose it.
    HOWEVER.

    I do think that overall, its not the best idea.
    My main thing about it is that to keep high BH, you had to both become and remain at least a decent player. You had to try the whole match just so you could keep it the whole time, narrowly avoiding death like crazy. NOW?? You can get it, and then play as badly as a newbie does. Huh!?? Ugh lol. Gonna be really cringe to see BH5s with like, 10 deaths. UGH yuck
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    VictorSpoils's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    1,030
    Character
    Victor Spoils
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Batbrat View Post
    I dont mind the changes at all. I'm a little biased though because I usually get BH pretty quick, so for me its mostly convenient that now I wont lose it.
    HOWEVER.

    I do think that overall, its not the best idea.
    My main thing about it is that to keep high BH, you had to both become and remain at least a decent player. You had to try the whole match just so you could keep it the whole time, narrowly avoiding death like crazy. NOW?? You can get it, and then play as badly as a newbie does. Huh!?? Ugh lol. Gonna be really cringe to see BH5s with like, 10 deaths. UGH yuck
    Tanks might also be more daring and stall more on nodes in Worqor. Before, the latter was an act of desperation.
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player
    MisterNublet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    485
    Character
    Autechre Voidmoon
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by VictorSpoils View Post
    Tanks might also be more daring and stall more on nodes in Worqor. Before, the latter was an act of desperation.
    No, because the 23 other useless ranged job players still won't push anyway.
    (5)

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