Normal editor tools. When?

[Moon_Rabbit]

do you understand the definition of a glitch?

I just answered you, did't i? Google it, maybe read some literature on development if you don't believe me?
Glitch is not an official tool, its use is not mentioned anywhere in the game, means is only for a very few players who knows about the glitch, just like you. I want advanced tools for all, officially sanctioned tools.

Like I said. None of you are creating any new possibilities.You are simply retreading ground.That was already treaded upon.You're not creating anything new.

Like I said , your own house betrays you. I know what the effort it took some of the stuff takes. You can't fake the effort.

You don't have to admit to mods.It's obvious just by looking at your screenshots you do.

But in doing so , you undermine your own argument. You're the one who's limited because you're creativity , purely comes from the tools and not the grit.to materialize that vision despite the friction.

The tools are what makes you an "artist", not the creativity. You're just a player with an idea who needs the shortcut to the end result.Because the process is too hard.

"Like I said, like I said, like I said." Yes, I heard what you said, and its all about you only. Don't project your subjective point of view onto others.
The better tool will yield the better results in a hands of same person, and that's precisely what progress is for, how mentioned at the very beginning of this thread.
Don't like progress? Well, then don't use electronics or complicated devices, don't play games on your console, its all a part of a progress and made with advanced tools. Just draw by hand.

[Solowing]

I just answered you, did't i? Google it, maybe read some literature on development if you don't believe me?
Glitch is not an official tool, its use is not mentioned anywhere in the game, means is only for a very few players who knows about the glitch, just like you. I want advanced tools for all, officially sanctioned tools.



"Like I said, like I said, like I said." Yes, I heard what you said, and its all about you only. Don't project your subjective point of view onto others.
The better tool will yield the better results in a hands of same person, and that's precisely what progress is for, how mentioned at the very beginning of this thread.
Don't like progress? Well, then don't use electronics or complicated devices, don't play games on your console, its all a part of a progress and made with advanced tools. Just draw by hand.

Actually it's more of a crutch. Because you are not willing to create what's on your vision without that crutch. Do me this , turn off your mods and try to create another house and watch how quickly the willingness to encounter that friction dictates the look of that house.

The difference between a creative and a curator is a creative will fight for the vision, a curator wont.

You won't fight for your vision if it isn't handed to you.

A creative will. That's not subjective, that's objective.

The friction is the crucible, that creative minds work through to see that vision go from idea to conceptualization. You've decoupled the outcome from the effort. If you want to pick pretty styles and just b place them youre a curator. There's nothing wrong with that. But lets not conflate that with creative.

[Moon_Rabbit]

I'm tired to discuss without any positive result. Do you can read? Nice. I am a support a rational approach to dispute.

Here is article by scientists from Aarhus University (Denmark), both of whom specialize in the intersection of design, digital technologies, and cognitive sciences of creativity.
«Decisive constraints as a creative resource in interaction design».

If you are lazy ass thats brief summary: they are argues that constraints stimulate creativity when it act as a tool for conscious rethinking of a task, rather than as external pressure. Voluntary self-restraint and radical structural frameworks enhance creativity, while externally imposed ultimatums and limits overload inhibit the creative process.

I agree with their point of view, self-restraint is indeed useful. But our castrated FFXIV editor at current state is that kind of ultimative limitation which exist 13 years, so the only future you have without new tools and opportunities is degradation as a creator.


Awaiting you answer, it shouldn't be another "LoL", right? You can't just throw mud at yourself forever?

[Solowing]

I'm tired to discuss without any positive result. Do you can read? Nice. I am a support a rational approach to dispute.

Here is article by scientists from Aarhus University (Denmark), both of whom specialize in the intersection of design, digital technologies, and cognitive sciences of creativity.
«Decisive constraints as a creative resource in interaction design».

If you are lazy ass thats brief summary: they are argues that constraints stimulate creativity when it act as a tool for conscious rethinking of a task, rather than as external pressure. Voluntary self-restraint and radical structural frameworks enhance creativity, while externally imposed ultimatums and limits overload inhibit the creative process.

I agree with their point of view, self-restraint is indeed useful. But our castrated FFXIV editor at current state is that kind of ultimative limitation which exist 13 years, so the only future you have without new tools and opportunities is degradation as a creator.


Awaiting you answer, it shouldn't be another "LoL", right? You can't just throw mud at yourself forever?

Did I ever say that your approach was irrational? I said it was toxic to the craft. Just like a I rationalize ai as a tool for information , but it's toxic, because it doesn't elevate people, it just brings them down because of their Reliance on it.

I took your mOD tools away.You wouldn't be able to create what you do, IF you took mods away from me it wouldn't affect me. The underlying creativity is still there. You have creativity, but are unwilling to see it through due to friction. It remains nothing but an idea without the human spirit to push through the friction anyway.

By the way , that's not a short summary that's a full on article , and i'm not reading that on the phone. I can't read it on my laptop because I keep getting error code 429 from my router IP.

You're not necessarily wrong , but i'm not wrong either. Education is tanking because when you allow people to use a tool to get to the end result while bypassing the friction. They didnt get smarter, they got dumber. But smart enough to bypass the friction to achieve the end result. Did it make them smarter? No. If I start asking them questions to test their knowledge , they're going to fail if the tool isn't present.

Like , I said , your point of view , compared to your pininterrst screenshots. Tells the story of work that you didn't do. You were correctly called down on using mods, you thought that your house was indistinguishable from any other house, its very distinguishable.It's easily distinguishable actually. You can't fake the work to someone who does it..

My whole argument is the tools were never the thing that limited you was your own creativity. Creatives will see that vision through no matter what tools you give them. Understand playing midi doesnt make you a musican. I'm suck at the drums , but I have a drum set that i'm practicing and that has more weight than a midi player because of the friction im willing to endure, to learn the craft. One gets you respect the other get you overlooked.

And given that your house is on pininterest , you're doing it for thr crowd, you wanna be seen as a creative. And to somebody who does housing , just like you , it's output without the input. It looks nice, and i immddateltmove on , there's no impact left because your houses have no story to tell outside.They look cute. But you didn't pay the sweat tax so there's no real impression to me. Because it lack the weight from the creator. You've designed a space to be consumed , not appreciated.

[Moon_Rabbit]

Did I ever say that your approach was irrational? I said it was toxic to the craft. Just like a I rationalize ai as a tool for information , but it's toxic, because it doesn't elevate people, it just brings them down because of their Reliance on it.

Your comparison with AI is kinda weird? The tools im mentioned in the main post are completely manual to use and don't rely on artificial algorithms. Same like professional designer using, yet they can make a creative ideas, and they did before AI even shown on a public.

I took your mOD tools away.You wouldn't be able to create what you do, IF you took mods away from me it wouldn't affect me. The underlying creativity is still there. You have creativity, but are unwilling to see it through due to friction. It remains nothing but an idea without the human spirit to push through the friction anyway.

Wait, but you never used mods, and you told me its not affect you somehow? Well OFC, if you not even tried. So your point of view is only...theoretical? But you complain like its a fact.

By the way , that's not a short summary that's a full on article , and i'm not reading that on the phone. I can't read it on my laptop because I keep getting error mode 429 from my router IP.

Sigh...You can't ask AI to find alternative source with the name of article i gave you? Try VPN, or similar things? Your adaptation skill can't be so low... Don't tell me i should search a proper source for you.


Both excessive freedom and excessive restrictions can be negative to creative. With advanced tools ppll can choose, and can self-restraint when they want and if they want to. You can self-restraint too after advanced editor release.
You won't lose your limits after the release, and others will have the opportunity to create as they wish. Its a freedom to choose.
It's also a compromise, because you won't lose anything, and others will gain. Stop being selfish in your desires.

[Solowing]

Your comparison with AI is kinda weird? The tools im mentioned in the main post are completely manual to use and don't rely on artificial algorithms. Same like professional designer using, yet they can make a creative ideas, and they did before AI even shown on a public.

Wait, but you never used mods, and you told me its not affect you somehow? Well OFC, if you not even tried. So your point of view is only...theoretical? But you complain like its a fact.

Sigh...You can't ask AI to find alternative source with the name of article i gave you? Try VPN, or similar things? Your adaptation skill can't be so low... Don't tell me i should search a proper source for you.


Both excessive freedom and excessive restrictions can be negative to creative. With advanced tools ppll can choose, and can self-restraint when they want and if they want to. You can self-restraint too after advanced editor release.
You won't lose your limits after the release, and others will have the opportunity to create as they wish. Its a freedom to choose.
It's also a compromise, because you won't lose anything, and others will gain. Stop being selfish in your desires.

sister, me and my schoolmates were using VPN's the bypass.The schools address block since the late 90s

Only differences on now.They charge money for it and i'm not spending it on a v p n that I don't need. My solution would be either messaging the administrators or changing out my router. Ye.\nAh , i'm still posting by continuously swapping on and off the wifi on my phone to use the forum "(massive pita) if I really want to use my laptop all I gotta do is just turn on my Hotspot..

Yes , I can self limit , but that doesn't make my work more impressive, as you said, it makes me stupid for doing it.The hard way , even though that is something the vast majority of humanity would respect. Humane actually glorifies these things in stories , because people want to see the human spirit , the grit , the unwillingness to give up perservere. You're quite literally had that theme posted to you in endwalker And you see those qualities as a negative. As a waste of time... i am not offended, personally. But a different feeling internally is deeply disgusted with that perspective. It's treated like emotional stolen valor. People cried about a lesson they never actually agreed with or believed. Dawntrailrail is exactly what the Western audience believes, and guess who abhors a frictionless experience?

[Moon_Rabbit]

sister, me and my schoolmates were using VPN's the bypass.The schools address block since the late 90s

Only differences on now.They charge money for it and i'm not spending it on a v p n that I don't need. My solution would be either messaging the administrators or changing out my router. Ye.\nAh , i'm still posting by continuously swapping on and off the wifi on my phone to use the forum "(massive pita) if I really want to use my laptop all I gotta do is just turn on my Hotspot..

Sure, I can sell for strange and likely.I will , but you remove the medical remove that there's nothing going to the replace it. You've effectively sterilized the system.Everyone can access it, but no one cares anymore.Because nothing's impressive , because everything is achievable.

You literally admitting to raising the skill floor but not raising the skill ceiling. The question is , what happens when the skill floor meets the skill ceiling?

The tool I mentioned in the main post (also called Gizmo) has been known at least 30 years. 100% that SE developers used it in their 3D editors to create FFXIV, the game you and me playing right now. They created every model, every house, every location using this tool. Tell me is "evrything sterilized and nothing's impressive" here? Is their work soulles somehow?

And the main question: they used those tools to create the whole game, we ask less than a percent of all of their possibilities, we are not worthy? Or your opinion that other ppls can't control own creative just becaues you think like that?

[Solowing]

The tool I mentioned in the main post (also called Gizmo) has been known at least 30 years. 100% that SE developers used it in their 3D editors to create FFXIV, the game you and me playing right now. They created every model, every house, every location using this tool. Tell me is "evrything sterilized and nothing's impressive" here? Is their work soulles somehow?

And the main question: they used those tools to create the whole game, we ask less than a percent of all of their possibilities, we are not worthy? Or your opinion that other ppls can't control own creative just becaues you think like that?

You find creativity through friction.You don't remove the friction and expect creativity to survive. It's a muscle that consistently needs to be used if you want to remove it by all means go ahead. But protect us all the craft and that's gone.We're not getting it back. I'm sure they will find a compromise somewhere on the line. Because in this modern day in gaming the monkey always curls lol

So when you see people arguing about class homagization. And how the classes are boring because they're standardizing them all, because friction is apparently a bad thing. And that's what happens , your soul comes at a cost of convenience , but after certain point , there is no soul and people start to push back , but by then , it's too late. The soul isn't given away immediately. It's progressively sold out over a long period of time.. by the time people are like okay now I'm no longer willing to compromise on its soul four accessibility it's too late. This is a small microcosm issue that's actually taking place across the entire game.

[Moon_Rabbit]

You don't think it's impressive on how they went from 1.0 to 2.0? For all the struggles they had during 1.0 , they somehow pulled this game out of the trash and put it on a pedestal that stood toe to toe and shoulder to shoulder with the best of them? I'm not a final fantasy fan, but this game somehow managed to pull me in and keep me for longer than i've stayed in world of warcraft.

You are misunderstanding.I am not impressed when things are easy.It's when things are hard, things get impressive.Because there's a story to tell in that. There is struggle there is perseverance.

If you want to make a pretty house cool , it's pretty , but it's forgettable. But an impressive house, you can't forget, because there's a story to it.You can see the love , effort and struggle made to get to the outcome...

Some of you just want a pretty house, but no one remembers a pretty house , because everyone's got a pretty house. But a pretty house you struggle for you can't forget, it has this blood sweat and tears written into it.

This argument was never purely about the tools.It was about the willingness to see the outcome despite the friction is what makes an artist a creative.

Aaand there is no direct answer to my question?
1. 3 years, to make things "uforgettable" they changed a lot, and not only game, but also ppls and software, for sure. Changes. Because they can and they changed their conditions by own will.
You can't, you literally living in same surrounding and with same tools 13 years. And you told me this is a way to progress? Do you really think SE would change under the same conditions like you have?
2. SE developers using those tools this days, they able to do good things, right? So we will be able too?

Your stubbornness suggests you're unwilling to even consider alternatives. Read the article I shared, or something same about the balance between freedom and self-restraint. Self-restraint. Means you can decide in what conditions should you create.
If the restrictions are determined for you, then your ceiling will be forever limited by their will, not your.

[Moon_Rabbit]

You find creativity through friction.You don't remove the friction and expect creativity to survive. It's a muscle that consistently needs to be used if you want to remove it by all means go ahead. But protect us all the craft and that's gone.We're not getting it back. I'm sure they will find a compromise somewhere on the line. Because in this modern day in gaming the monkey always curls lol

So when you see people arguing about class homagization. And how the classes are boring because they're standardizing them all, because friction is apparently a bad thing. And that's what happens , your soul comes at a cost of convenience , but after certain point , there is no soul and people start to push back , but by then , it's too late. The soul isn't given away immediately. It's progressively sold out over a long period of time.. by the time people are like okay now I'm no longer willing to compromise on its soul four accessibility it's too late. This is a small microcosm issue that's actually taking place across the entire game.

I asked you a specific question about SE and its development conditions. Tell me, what made you step aside?

Because in this modern day in gaming the monkey always curls lol

So thats how your mind works, i see.