Normal editor tools. When?

[Themarvin]

"Were looking into it"

I'ma stick with the ways of old. It really forces you to think outside the box and get creative. It burns me out. But the results feel....Perfect. Like a journey up a hiking trail, and when you get to the top, you get to look down at your creation and soak it all in. All the obstacles, all the little moments where you stop and see the space taking shape, all the little detours you have to take because the easiest route to take is blocked off. And the end result is never how I imagined it in my head, but its perfect as it is, because I made it perfectly. Its a puzzle in a journey and at the end of it you get to bask in its completion. Congrats, you completed the journey!

I get why people want it. But once you start digging into it. You dig into it. Ive shown friends how to try to use the system by not looking at its limitations but what creativity is shaped by the spaced they are confined in. Their design take a massive quality jump, and nothing changed but their mindset. An how they approach the system.

But once they add in this, its less of a journey and a walk to the corner store and back. Yes changing out items on the fly is easier. But that timesink investment is now gone, there's nothing to figure out. Once you're done in an hour, what's left?

I don't think the current system should be a thing at all, and it is a baffling that a modern MMO like FFXIV is supposed to be is inferior to like a game like Star Wars Galaxies where you can literally put anything anywhere any height any angle, what you are worried about is going out of business when now everyone can just place items the way they want, without having to use glitches.

As for limitations even the glitch system we use now has extreme amounts of limits you can't even deal with or fix to have certain items the way you want them as in like no never.

[Solowing]

I don't think the current system should be a thing at all, and it is a baffling that a modern MMO like FFXIV is supposed to be is inferior to like a game like Star Wars Galaxies where you can literally put anything anywhere any height any angle, what you are worried about is going out of business when now everyone can just place items the way they want, without having to use glitches.

As for limitations even the glitch system we use now has extreme amounts of limits you can't even deal with or fix to have certain items the way you want them as in like no never.

Those limits give my creation flavor because of the lateral thinking needed it to impose my will on it.

If you get hit with something that isn't giving what you want? You gonna cry and stomp until you get it? Life tosseed me an issue of my car not starting. Either I can pay someone to fix it. Or I can roll up my sleeves and problem solve my way to a solution. I chose to roll up my sleeves because the friction is a learning moment. I felt a moment of pride with one of the Car guy big wigs at my place of work asked me about my car, and I told them the struggles of my issues and the attempts at troubleshooting. He respects not the end result because its still not turning on. But the attempt in trying to do something that isn't easy. Because they work on their own cars themselves they understand and respect the struggle, and a struggle that hasn't resolved yet, is more respectful then a result without struggle.

I don't mind if the floor is raised. But I want the ceiling raised as well. Rather then only the floor raised and ceiling left where it is. But the problem is if every ceiling needs to be as accessible as the floor. What limits can you push?

[Themarvin]

Those limits give my creation flavor because of the lateral thinking needed it to impose my will on it.

If you get hit with something that isn't giving what you want? You gonna cry and stomp until you get it? Life tosseed me an issue of my car not starting. Either I can pay someone to fix it. Or I can roll up my sleeves and problem solve my way to a solution. I chose to roll up my sleeves because the friction is a learning moment. I felt a moment of pride with one of the Car guy big wigs at my place of work asked me about my car, and I told them the struggles of my issues and the attempts at troubleshooting. He respects not the end result because its still not turning on. But the attempt in trying to do something that isn't easy. Because they work on their own cars themselves they understand and respect the struggle, and a struggle that hasn't resolved yet, is more respectful then a result without struggle.

I don't mind if the floor is raised. But I want the ceiling raised as well. Rather then only the floor raised and ceiling left where it is. But the problem is if every ceiling needs to be as accessible as the floor. What limits can you push?

My argument still stand, it would be preferred if I could use that creativity to actually build things and not having to rely on any glitches AT ALL.

That you get a kick out of it fine, but having to lift a bunch of things on a partition and the likes is absolutely retarded and hindering progress for the extreme majority of people, that does not mean you can not continue using the glitches when we get the fixes that should had been there in the very first place when housing and apartments became a thing, it is as simple as that.

[Solowing]

My argument still stand, it would be preferred if I could use that creativity to actually build things and not having to rely on any glitches AT ALL.

That you get a kick out of it fine, but having to lift a bunch of things on a partition and the likes is absolutely retarded and hindering progress for the extreme majority of people, that does not mean you can not continue using the glitches when we get the fixes that should had been there in the very first place when housing and apartments became a thing, it is as simple as that.

I find these back and forths fun. We are arguing a philosophy, not just a video game anymore.

For you you just want to create in a game that you pay for.

Me? Oh theres a glitch that allowes me to take a creative aspect of a game to limits it never naturally allows me to? That's where creativity blooms for me. Not in the limits but the ability to take the limits and toss them in the trash by my own merit.

But in asking for the floor to be raised, but not the ceiling, nobody can stand out anymore. And if another glitch is discovered those who don't want to do it will again ask for it to be standardized. There can be no innovation because innovation is merely a glitch waiting to be patched out

"One race had discarded all things that gave rise to sorrow, hoping to have only joy. They found joy lost its savor in the absence of sorrow, and lost their will to live"

[Themarvin]

I find these back and forths fun. We are arguing a philosophy, not just a video game anymore.

For you you just want to create in a game that you pay for.

Me? Oh theres a glitch that allowes me to take a creative aspect of a game to limits it never naturally allows me to? That's where creativity blooms for me. Not in the limits but the ability to take the limits and toss them in the trash by my own merit.

But in asking for the floor to be raised, but not the ceiling, nobody can stand out anymore. And if another glitch is discovered those who don't want to do it will again ask for it to be standardized. There can be no innovation because innovation is merely a glitch waiting to be patched out

"One race had discarded all things that gave rise to sorrow, hoping to have only joy. They found joy lost its savor in the absence of sorrow, and lost their will to live"

You make no sense at all, that you are strongly against people being hindered to decorate in a free mode, without having to use additional out of game tools or using in game glitches is all on your back, as for creativity... with everyone being able to put things the exact way they want it, without having to use an outside source or another glitch expert player, just increases the creativity instead of having a bunch of houses that literally just look like the same inside.

This will grant and give creativity and full freedom to build to the 1000s, where as before it was for the 1.

You will get to see 100s 1000s of different ways and designs... you will have people looking what the neighbor did and trying to re-create it and maybe even outdo it and add their VERY OWN touch as well, you will see independent creativity that would flourish into a better community as well that is not only saved for the very few, who think they got privileges above others.

So please spare me, spare the people in general for these kinds of odd arguments, and if you want to keep on using glitches and the likes, then I am pretty sure they are going to stay in the game as well, giving you the ability to do what you used to do.

[Solowing]

You make no sense at all, that you are strongly against people being hindered to decorate in a free mode, without having to use additional out of game tools or using in game glitches is all on your back, as for creativity... with everyone being able to put things the exact way they want it, without having to use an outside source or another glitch expert player, just increases the creativity instead of having a bunch of houses that literally just look like the same inside.

This will grant and give creativity and full freedom to build to the 1000s, where as before it was for the 1.

You will get to see 100s 1000s of different ways and designs... you will have people looking what the neighbor did and trying to re-create it and maybe even outdo it and add their VERY OWN touch as well, you will see independent creativity that would flourish into a better community as well that is not only saved for the very few, who think they got privileges above others.

So please spare me, spare the people in general for these kinds of odd arguments, and if you want to keep on using glitches and the likes, then I am pretty sure they are going to stay in the game as well, giving you the ability to do what you used to do.

This is where the filter starts to slip and I start letting it rip like a bayblade

The people who are already creative, already have their plot how they want it. That's the blunt truth

It brings the floor up to those who already have what they want. So you can match their output for less effort

But in the end you are just treading ground that was already pathed out.

But there isn't any new paths. You've raised the floor to the ceiling. And those at the ceiling have nowhere else to go.

Innovation is viewed as gatekeeping, so innovation as a concept cant exist lol

(Sorry, I come off kinda biting, I don't have any issues with you. Its just how it comes off normally)

[Themarvin]

This is where the filter starts to slip and I start letting it rip like a bayblade

The people who are already creative, already have their plot how they want it. That's the blunt truth

It brings the floor up to those who already have what they want. So you can match their output for less effort

But in the end you are just treading ground that was already pathed out.

But there isn't any new paths. You've raised the floor to the ceiling. And those at the ceiling have nowhere else to go.

Innovation is viewed as gatekeeping, so innovation as a concept cant exist lol

Innovation is making the tools easier to use as well as being able to finish off projects faster and on top of that being able to spend time trying more different ideas and designs not having to waste time, please just stop?