Summoner Health Check

[Gwenkatsu]

I like the new summoner. I also prefer the new Black Mage very much, compared to the old one.
There, I said it. Now you can all shout "witch" and burn me to the stake.

[Aidorouge]

I'm not bothered by it because I never considered Summoner a "pet class" to begin with (and having to remember to pull out Carbuncle is more annoying than endearing).

Even if we did have other Primals, it wouldn't radically alter its overall rotations so much as just change the graphic of some spell I already use. It would be glamour at best, or something I have to shrink the size of at worst.

[Absurdity]

Have we been looking at the same job? Sure, it's better designed than current Summoner, but that's not exactly a high bar.

From what gameplay they showed in the preview it looks like the same design mold as every other normal combat job.
You got your basic combo, you build gauge, you spend gauge on bigger attacks and the order in which you do them then unlocks bigger "big burst damage" attacks.
The only potentially unique thing about it is that you can select your own 3 beasts instead of having pre-determined ones. And even that isn't guaranteed because the beasts they showed just did generic damage with different VFX.

But it's just a hodgepodge of Monk's nadi mechanic, both old SMN's persistent pets and new SMN's "ultimate" attack cooldowns and literally the same job design they've used for the last 5+ years.

[Vespar]

What ruined summoner for me completely was when they made first rework and removed the DoT's that made summoner more unique and fun to play back in 2.0.

This. DoT Summoner was so much more fun! I also enjoyed having a summonable pet out at all times that actually fights! The butchered Carbuncle we have now is so pointless. At the very least he could do something other than stare dumbfounded at me while I do all the work. Whats the point of having a pet if it has no real function. Im pretty sure I could cast Searing Light, Gemshine and Brilliance without the need for Carbuncle undulating in my general direction...

Even SCH's fairies actually do something!

Bring back actual egis & dots plz!

[VulpinusRex]

Let me prephrase this by saying I'm a SMN main, and SMN has always been my favorite job in every other FF game.

The problem with DoT Summoner is that it's just not really a Summoner. Nothing about it reminded of a classic Final Fantasy Summoner, at which point they might as well not call it such because it simply isn't a Summoner at all. In fact, more often than not Summoner historically wasn't even really a pet job, let alone a DoT mage.

The OG SMN was just a poor imitation of WoW's Warlock, that's about it. I didn't dislike it as a job, it was fun, but it was just completely missing its job fantasy as a classic FF job, especially since you'd ultimately want to just summon Garuda anyway for Contagion. Not really a Summoner if you don't summon the Primals themselves AND you have no reason to summon any other beyond the one that actively works with your kit.

The new Summoner is the best 'version' of Summoner XIV has managed to make, in the sense that it does feel like a classic FF Summoner. The problem lies in that they did the rework and then proceeded to do absolutely nothing with it beyond that. We're stuck still summoning the same 3 mini Primals, Bahamut and Phoenix are still there only that now we also have a tacky, Kingdom Hearts-looking special Bahamut that has absolutely no lore backing to it to boot. Meanwhile we have this enormous backlog of Primals we *could* use but for whatever reason we just don't.
I would have preferred if SMN worked a bit like PCT, where each 'Rite' we cast gives us a little Gem and different combinations of Gems lead to Summoning a Demi-Primal that affects our basic kit. So 3 red gems would summon Ifrit, 3 blue gems would summon Leviathan, 1 red 2 blues would summon Ramuh, etc. That way the big 'thing' of the job *is* the Summon itself, while also making each Summon feel like its getting its flowers as well.

But ultimately as long as Arcanist exists as a class that ties SMN and SCH together, SMN will never get the proper shine and attention it deserves. It will always be a weird hodgepodge version of Arcanist and Summoner without ever fully fulfilling either fantasy properly.

Now as for DoT mage, I wish they'd just make a new Caster into that. Call it Occultist or Witch and make its focus to be the DoTs, instead making some weird concoction of DoTs and Pets that have no interactablity whatsoever (unless your name is Garuda).

And yes, I'm kinda peeved that BST works the way it does and I wish SMN was even a fraction as advanced and well-designed as it seems to be...

[Hanzz96]

This, i'd rather have more unbalanced jobs and more interesting toolkits.

The problem with unbalanced jobs is they just get locked out of PF. Look at MCH it was locked out of FRU PF, early cruiserweight PF ect. People will always pick the meta and those who aren't don't get to play.

[Azurarok]

Main problem I have with BST after seeing it in action is your beasts not having a health bar and a constant need to position them correctly. I was imagining it to be a sort of RTS-ish job that manages multiple units to fight.

There was nothing of the sort being said so it's my fault for having an imagination, but when I think of limited jobs I expect it to have gimmicks that they truly couldn't do in with standard jobs.


If having a rotation with any sense of customizability and essentially rehashed BLU spells is considered outside their scope of a standard job it doesn't really give me much hope with PvE gameplay in the future. It seems like the job exists for the Crucible and not the other way around.

[RedLolly]

Hey, Summoners!

How you all doing?

So, that LIMITED Job, Beast Master, boy howdy. Looks a lot like what you all should be. Having your summon out, switching out, getting to use all your summons plus more from all the adventures you all had, all those primals you've seen.

Real talk though, Beast Master looks more like summoner then actual Summoner Job.
Crazy.

How have you all not been raging over this? Looks a LOT like the job rework you should of got.

Summoner being a pet job was actually a unique detail of the MMO Final Fantasy titles, as the only one where it's a proper "per job" is FFXI.

The version we have now, casting summons as giant nuclear blasting spells, sometimes with secondary party effects, is a much closer recreation of the classic FF job. Even giving summoner some healing spells reflects many past summoner characters, as it was commonly paired to white mage.

In short, the devs were looking at Final Fantasy for design ideas; you guys are looking at WoW.

[SyferU]

aesthetically I still think the current summoner is the best version that this game ever had. You summon something to deliver a big attack and than infuse yourself with it's power to do a fire dash or wind puddle on the ground, it's kinda cool.
I wished Ifrit would only have the dash and they removed the long casts to give us another summon. Same goes for garuda, she should only give you a puddle and than you go to the next summon. Could easily fit 5 summons between Bahamut/phoenix.

[Absurdity]

If having a rotation with any sense of customizability and essentially rehashed BLU spells is considered outside their scope of a standard job it doesn't really give me much hope with PvE gameplay in the future. It seems like the job exists for the Crucible and not the other way around.

That's also my observation from what they've shown so far.
You could give it 3 generic "does high potency burst damage" beasts for normal PvE content (like they did in the preview) and it would slot right in next to every other melee job.