Frontline - Lets Address The Elephant In The Room

[Chiyeko]

Going to laugh when tournament comes into play for crystal conflict to see how many classes are broken and how slow SE can't make a fix on them. Would like a solo que for FL and rival wing be underneath FL roulette but not seeing that happen due to behavior pattern of SE correct and fix things in this game, and people wonder why pvp isn't taken seriously like pve and the amount of toxic positivity that goes with the player base.

[Scintilla]

Going to laugh when tournament comes into play for crystal conflict to see how many classes are broken and how slow SE can't make a fix on them. Would like a solo que for FL and rival wing be underneath FL roulette but not seeing that happen due to behavior pattern of SE correct and fix things in this game, and people wonder why pvp isn't taken seriously like pve and the amount of toxic positivity that goes with the player base.

An example of what I've been saying right here ^

"I can't manage it, therefore it must be completely broken, so I'm not going to try/take it seriously" - which then contributes very, very heavily into why they can't manage it, and the cycle continues.

A few tweaks needed here and there, sure. It's certainly not perfect and I don't think anyone would claim that it is. But the system is largely very manageable. The biggest issue is the community attitude

[JerryBerrry]

Sadly, we all know PVP is broken and unbalanced, yet there is a small minority of people who praise and love PVP the way it is. Try to say anything different and they’ll lash out, argue in bad faith; also try to stalk me too. I won’t list names on here though.

[JerryBerrry]

An example of what I've been saying right here ^

"I can't manage it, therefore it must be completely broken, so I'm not going to try/take it seriously" - which then contributes very, very heavily into why they can't manage it, and the cycle continues.

A few tweaks needed here and there, sure. It's certainly not perfect and I don't think anyone would claim that it is. But the system is largely very manageable. The biggest issue is the community attitude

Don’t be shocked when the community attitude of PvP is frustration. When I lose a game, I’ll accept the loss if it is the fault for my own. There are way to many random elements not is incredibly unbroken and unbalanced. Not to mentionnthe rng players who half pay attention on the screen while watching anime on the 2nd screen.

[TofuLove]

I miss when sole survivor proc aligned with recuperate spending... felt designed and considered. DRK damage in general is poo poo. Getting knocked by 100 knock backs is not very fun....in general - being in melee range without a good group is tiresome.

I just snipe dancers at the moment. Dancer moving in suspicious range? Kill em. Dancer around waiting to counter burst? Kill em.

That being said most of my deaths in frontline is due to monk lbs. Getting chain monked is zzz

p.s.
hi gaeten uwu

p.p.s
bravery vipers, bravery gunbreakers, bravery basically anything...is super dumb and bravery should be nerfed to not be able to cast on other players.

p.p.p.s
agreed on earth reply and timing of everything being just slightly too long
it might work in CC, but in frontline it takes waaaaay too long. don't get me started on disesteem delay.

[Scintilla]

Don’t be shocked when the community attitude of PvP is frustration. When I lose a game, I’ll accept the loss if it is the fault for my own. There are way to many random elements not is incredibly unbroken and unbalanced. Not to mentionnthe rng players who half pay attention on the screen while watching anime on the 2nd screen.

With the amount of PvP I've played, I wouldn't call it 'shock'
More tiresome.

And those players who pay half attention to the screen are a huge part of the problem. But, as highlighted in the post I quoted previously, very few will look inwardly as you say you do and wonder 'What could I have done differently?' or 'Is there anything I could do to better help my team / hinder the enemy?'. Usually the default is "It's broken. Why bother? Get my exp and get out". I know the feeling as I felt it when I first began PvP, but rather than take a defeatist approach, I elected to view it more as a challenge: 'Fine, they want to make my game difficult, how can I make their job harder?'. The main drawback being that not many share that same mindset.

Some members of those premades have since gone on to become my friends within the PvP community, though I still spend 90% of my time playing solo and, usually (because rng hates me!), vs them. The sense of challenge and competition remains.

That said, chances of changing an already fixed community attitude are low, I know.

Sorry for derailing your thread Gaeten. I'll shut up now

[Themarvin]

The only Elephant in the room is people deciding to fight on 2-5 different fronts at the same time while the other teams somewhat goes at you united lol....

As for that uhm..'flank king' bs.... well here is the thinh you do you... you go on the flank of the DRK that 'leads it' and you got a much better chance because Flank King is very extremely much only able to be done forward based.

[MayuAmakura]

An example of what I've been saying right here ^

"I can't manage it, therefore it must be completely broken, so I'm not going to try/take it seriously" - which then contributes very, very heavily into why they can't manage it, and the cycle continues.

A few tweaks needed here and there, sure. It's certainly not perfect and I don't think anyone would claim that it is. But the system is largely very manageable. The biggest issue is the community attitude

The biggest cope you can hear here. What are you? Bronze / Silver?

Did you even play back in endwalker? When GNB / RDM were still skill based? Just look at the changes now and why everybody spams GNB. It's an easy and broken class so why not obtain free points in CC while we're at it. Why top players constantly play the most broken classes to get free points? Why people spam Scholar or Astro for easy wins? Because they know WHM stands no chance with equal teams. Why PLD is still strong eh? Cover + barrier combo, stun, heal, shields, slow, ultimate LB that saves your endgame.

Ranged classes outperforming any Reaper or whatever you want to play. The system isn't manageable anymore when square created problems in the first place with the insane healing, barriers and constant fights where nobody dies if there are Scholars involved. Too much CC, high skilled classes became low skilled, purify changes.

Now bad frontline changes.

Nah,

[Scintilla]

The biggest cope you can hear here. What are you? Bronze / Silver?

Firstly, the conversation is focused on FL, no? So exactly what the relevance of my Crystalline Conflict rank is, I haven't the faintest idea - unless you're struggling to manage a respectable argument and just seek to find other things to pick fault with.

Personally, I am more an FL player than a Crystalline Conflict one. CC is more something I do on the side when I feel like a break from FL. But, as you asked:

My PvP character (obviously with the other players names removed)

How about yours?

Did you even play back in endwalker? When GNB / RDM were still skill based? Just look at the changes now and why everybody spams GNB. It's an easy and broken class so why not obtain free points in CC while we're at it. Why top players constantly play the most broken classes to get free points? Why people spam Scholar or Astro for easy wins? Because they know WHM stands no chance with equal teams. Why PLD is still strong eh? Cover + barrier combo, stun, heal, shields, slow, ultimate LB that saves your endgame.

Now, to the actually relevant points:

CC and FL are both very different and exactly which one you are referring to (especially given you ask my CC rank), I don't have a clue. Sadly, SE seem to have a far greater focus on CC than they do on FL, leaving classes designed more for play there than in FL. That can lead to some particularly deadly combinations in FL, it's true, and even some FL-specific job actions (such as Bravery) could do with some adjustments to help balance things a little. As I've said already - no-one is saying that things as they are are perfect. However, my point regarding FL remains: While there are flaws, the balance within FL is not so utterly broken that it warrants 'I'm not going to try'.

If I were to queue into a PvE duty and not move any faster than walking pace, using basic attack only, I would be kicked without hesitation for griefing. Yet, for some reason, some people view this as entirely acceptable within FL?

I have repeated this several times now so, if you still aren't considering it, we'll just have to agree to disagree: The passive 'I'm only here for exp' approach that a significant proportion of players take is what feeds premades the most. Job changes will be made, metas will change, and premades will adjust. The outcome will remain the same, partially as a result of the passive/defeatist approach of many casual players. At this point, I've long come to accept it as just the way things are. But what I dislike the most is the openly rude response that many commanders are faced with when trying to guide their team to a win.

[Scintilla]

Part 2 because, again, character limit...

Ranged classes outperforming any Reaper or whatever you want to play. The system isn't manageable anymore when square created problems in the first place with the insane healing, barriers and constant fights where nobody dies if there are Scholars involved. Too much CC, high skilled classes became low skilled, purify changes.

With the exception of 'the system isn't manageable' (as I elaborate on above), I can't say that I disagree too much with what you've mentioned here (assuming I've read and understood it correctly)? I'm not quite sure where you feel I've suggested the opposite?

I play all classes, generally melee a bit more than the others when it comes to FL. I completely understand the ridiculous CC levels tanks/melees get, the Purify issues, and the heavy cost due to delays in skill applications for some classes (being particularly costly for tanks/melees who kind of need those defensive/healing abilities to apply ASAP). I am not too certain about reducing the amount of CC, though, because I also know how deadly an unchecked tank/melee can potentially be (such as one under PLD cover). My main point regarding the amount of CC is that I don't think it's going to be easy to find the right balance - more factors are involved (e.g. job proportions, player engagement, skill issues).