Thief & Ninja ideas!

[Amsai]

@ OP: I completely agree with your direction. In fact I have been toying with a similar design myself for the past few weeks. I will post it when I get a chance. But here are the major points:

[Amsai]

Doh, double post due to android.

1. Maintain the classic thief/ninja feel. Including things like steal and flee.
2. Make the class/job useful, and not a repeat or OP version of an existing class.
3. Provide the class/job with 3 uniquely defining functions:
a. Hybrid dps
b. Have weak AA and WS damage with main focus being on Huge DoT effects from WSs that stack.
c. Enmity control.

Hybrid Dps for both melee and ranged attacks so they can be useful in situations where melee is not ideal. DoTs would provide a unique primary damage source, as well as being very usefull for bosses like ifrit that teleport or move around alot. So that even when bosses do this Thief/Ninjas huge DoTs would still be doing damage. Enmity control forhelping stick or reastablish enmity on tank, reducing self or party enmity, or even for kiting and sac pulling.

[Maldalewyn]

You have a three chain weaponskill combo that has descriptions of "painstaking" and "devastating" but the opening weaponskill is only 250 tp, not to mention the cooldowns. Seems pretty broken to me.

Agreed, but I didn't know exactly what would be more appropriate since the damage can't really be shown. I figured the bleeding weaponskill combo would be fairly low damage, the text in the description is just flavor, so it should be available quickly. The 3rd part of the combo, disabling regen and cure effects, might need a longer cooldown, especially if the effect remains as long as the bleeding effect can last, that could be pretty OP with the Serrated Blade ability. Still, without actually seeing it in game, I have no idea what's OP since the combo itself, in my head, would have been fairly weak and mostly reliant on the bleeding effect for damage throughout the fight. It's usefulness is in fights against large targets, rather than small targets or in EXP.

Also for some reason I had forgotten that following weapon skills in a combo are free after the first, so ya, that cost would need to go up to 1000TP with a standard 5 sec cooldown.


As for Steal complaints, I'd probably replace Blood Booze with Steal and make it something like...

Steal [1:00 DR] [3:00 CD]: Steal an opponents advantage in combat, disabling them and leaving them more open for critical attacks from your allies. May also steal some Gil from their pockets.

So it'd basically be an enfeeb that lasts for a 1 minute that can be done every 3 minutes.

The "disabling them" part is just flavor text, don't read into it. lol

[ShivenCasull]

You've made a thief class in a Final Fantasy game... And haven't included steal. That's their signature ability!

A thief that doesn't steal isn't a thief. :P

You could call the class Rogue instead, but that would probably set off all sorts of hate.

[Maldalewyn]

1. Maintain the classic thief/ninja feel. Including things like steal and flee.

Oops, I forgot all about Flee, but I think it's pretty useless in FFXIV considering you can call your birds out anytime. I think I'd attach it with another ability, maybe Enmaku or the Steal I posted above.

Provide the class/job with 3 uniquely defining functions:

I tried to do that here with the DOT Weapon skill combo. It provides 2 unique functions, Damage over time being the most obvious, and the ability to disable an enemies ability to heal itself or receive heals for the duration of the DOT.

Backfire would be another unique ability that would damage the enemy slightly, but disable their weaponskill for one use. While it's not amazing, it could definitely help keep melee in range for a fight if the THF is fast, and lucky enough, to disable stuff like massive AOE damage.

And providing Sneak/Invis/Deo for the entire party is pretty nice too, though not all that useful in the game currently, it could provide invaluable in the future, who's the say?

c. Enmity control.

That's mostly Trick Attack right there, but I included another one called Rogue's Rancor that would allow them to pass your entire enmity to another party member. I know someone complained it'd be OP but with a 3 minute cooldown, maybe raising it to 5 to be in sync with raise, I don't see it being a problem. The idea behind the ability was to give the THF a chance to restore order if a tank fell in combat, either giving enmity to another tank, or the primary tank after a presence of mind + raise.

[Amsai]

Yea OP, I completely understand your direction with all of it. I think you did a great job. And ill post mine later on. You will be amazed just how similar our direction is. Im just happy to find a kindred spirit.

[Amsai]

Ok Maldalewyn, here is the idea for a thief/ninja combo that Ive been toying with for the last few weeks.

OK, so how about a quick overview on some basic information about the class. Keep in mind some of the following is general information. I would leave specific numbers and balancing up to the Devs. The major idea is low damage weapons with low delay, but also with very low Weapon skill damage. I know what you are all thinking, "This sounds horrible", but stay with me for a bit. The pay off would be multiple, very high, stack-able DoTs. This is where a Thief's primary damage would come from. Now this means a lot of low TP and low cool down timers on the weapon skills, but I think that fair for doing the worst melee damage (think Gla before class reforms). They would of course dual wield small bladed weapons (pick a type, I don’t care), and they'd be paired like monk weapons so no need for dual wield. And they would also have the highest damage output on throwing weapons, thanks to class exclusive Shurikens. Ninjas would use tools for bomb magic. Subclasses would be Pug and Arc, Pug being the required one for Ninja. Stat modifiers for damage are Pie and Int, and Pie will also help with m. eva and getting debuffs/DoTs to stick. They would naturally have high eva, m. eva, int, and pie. And I was thinking armor types that drgs and mnks can wear with HP like a drg.


Traits:

Enhanced Acc I (+8)
Enhanced Eva I (+8)
Enhanced M. Eva I (+8)
Treasure Hunter (increases gil drops from enemies and chests by 15%)
Enhanced Steal (increases chance to steal by 15%)
Enhanced Trick Attack (Increased enmity to target by x 1.5)
Enhanced Acc II (+10)
Enhanced Eva II (+10)
Enhanced M. Eva II (+10)
Enhanced M. Attack (+15)
Enhanced Bleeding (increases potency and duration of DoTs by 25%)


Thief Skills

Weapon Skills:

Combo Chain 1:

Dancing Edge (single target damage, 10 sec recast, 500 TP) combos
with Throat Stab, must start from side.

Throat Stab (single target damage, 20 sec recast, 1500 TP) combos
with Viper Bite. Combo Effect: Chance to Silence.

Viper Bite (single target damage, 30 sec recast, 2000 TP)
Combo Effect: Inflicts Poison (Large DoT).

Combo Chain 2:

Gut Slash (single target damage, 10 sec recast, 500TP) combos with
Evisceration, must start from front.

Evisceration (single target damage, 20 sec recast, 1500 TP) combos
with Shark Bite. Combo Effect: Chance to Pacify.

Shark Bite (single target damage, 30 sec recast, 2000 TP)
Combo Effect: Inflicts Double Wound (Large DoT).

Combo Chain 3:

Back Stab (single target damage, 10 sec recast, 500 TP) combos with
Skull Strike, must start from back.

Skull Strike (single target damage, 20 sec recast, 1500 TP) combos
with Rat Bite. Combo Effect: Chance to Amnesia.

Rat Bite (single target damage, 30 sec recast, 2000 TP)
Combo Effect: Inflicts Plague (Large DoT).

Lone WS:

Cyclone (AoE damage, 30 sec recast, 250 TP) Chance to Stun.
Can only be performed after a dodge.


(I hate directional combos, but threw them in anyways).


Actions:

Steal - Chance to steal. (180 sec recast) Only common items and
materials, possible exception for class/job quests.

Flee - Increases Movement speed for 45 secs. (300 sec recast) Aggro
does not cancel it. As fast as Chocobo. Generates massive enmity from
enemies you have aggro on.

Trick Attack - Next attack's enmity is increased 5 fold and redirected to
targeted ally. (60 sec recast) Works with any damaging action, but not
auto attack. Direction and position don’t effect it.

Mystic Shift – Dodges next Magic attack directed at you. Works like
Featherfoot. Piety and M. Eva Increase effect. (60 sec recast).

Acceleration - Rapidly throw 6 shuriken at once. (90 sec recast) Works
like Barrage.


Ninja Skills

Actions:

Recoil – Steals 25% of enmity of all party members with within range
and redirects it to targeted ally. Self target AoE. (900 sec recast.)



Spells:

Flare Bomb (60 sec recast, uses 1 bomb tool) Fire Magic Damage on
targeted enemy.(int, m. attk effects potency).

Burst Bomb (60 sec recast, uses 1 bomb tool) Thunder Magic Damage
on targeted enemy.(int, m. attk effects potency).

Tornado Bomb (60 sec recast, uses 1 bomb tool) Wind Magic Damage
on targeted enemy.(int, m. attk effects potency).

Quake Bomb (60 sec recast, uses 1 bomb tool) Earth Magic Damage on
targeted enemy. (int, m. attk effects potency).

Note: the magic attack damage is decent but not on par with BLM or
WHM magic damage. However each magic bomb increases the targeted
enemies resistance and m. evasion to its particular element by 5%
upon each use, effect stacks up to 3 times.

[TomCarroll]

I like seeing creative threads like this, but I think that utsusemi would break tanking in this game and cause a lot of unnecessary balance issues. This is assuming there'll be balance come 2.0...

[RahJah]

I love the idea of having a dual wielding job with lots of melee debuffing skills. I would like to see stealth to have its place in this game. I like playing the role of a treasure hunting assassin.

[Maldalewyn]

Our builds are pretty similar Amsai, but yours seems more varied with the debuffs... okay A LOT more varied. lol

I like seeing creative threads like this, but I think that utsusemi would break tanking in this game and cause a lot of unnecessary balance issues. This is assuming there'll be balance come 2.0...

Utsusemi was on NIN though... it's a job... no one else can use it.

Beside that, I also added it REDUCES enmity and only gave 2 shadows with 30 sec cool down. I don't think that's going to happen, you're just having flashbacks to FFXI.

Like I said earlier, as a job ability, keeping it exclusive, its only possible purpose is to serve the THF/NIN in survival either alone, or against bosses. There would be NO TIERS of Utsusemi at all, this isn't FFXI, it's FFXIV, and I'm pretty sure the game is already intend on keeping spell tiers a thing of the past. That means no Utsusemi: Ichi and Ni, just 2 shadows with reduced enmity every 30 seconds. It could help the thief tank while solo, but there is no way a tank could keep enmity up if he was dependent on shadows that cost him MP on an already limited MP pool.