Death Magic

[RedLolly]

Reaper is also framed as the desperate last resort by the Garleans that have no ability to use magic, and the entire questline is you helping put down a voidsent that broke it's contract and killed it's reaper partner and has been indiscriminately killing for decades by puppeting his old master's body. There's that theme, again.


All "taboo" and restricted jobs we gain access to have the same framing that we, as the special, are being entrusted to use these arts *correctly.*

And it's very hard to think of any way to use Necromancy *correctly* just be the nature of the art itself.

Shoot, even the Alchemy quest lines delve into this type of stuff and how universally bad it is.

[VeyaAkemi]

And it's very hard to think of any way to use Necromancy *correctly* just be the nature of the art itself.

Positive depictions of Necromancy always focus on the idea that while raising dead bodies is pretty bad, they are ultimately just objects even if it is very disrespectful, and what makes necromancy *really* evil is the enslavement the souls of the dead, in turn, positive Necromancy will use the same tools that allow the enslavement of souls to communicate with them, aid them to do what is needed for them to properly pass on, becoming a spirit guide of a sort, and some of those souls decide to willingly stay a little longer to pay back the Necromancer who aided them, eventually forming a team of willing spirits to provide most of the tools that the evil Necromancers usually have.

This style of Necromancy typically won't use undead minions, and if they do, it is one to a small handful of specific corpses that get reused and upkept, from people who willingly allowed their corpses to be used that way, for one reason or another.

Good Necromancy can be summarized with "Consent is sexy", if you think about it.

[Littledeathgirl]

Reaper is also framed as the desperate last resort by the Garleans that have no ability to use magic, and the entire questline is you helping put down a voidsent that broke it's contract and killed it's reaper partner and has been indiscriminately killing for decades by puppeting his old master's body. There's that theme, again.


All "taboo" and restricted jobs we gain access to have the same framing that we, as the special, are being entrusted to use these arts *correctly.*

And it's very hard to think of any way to use Necromancy *correctly* just be the nature of the art itself.

Shoot, even the Alchemy quest lines delve into this type of stuff and how universally bad it is.

I mean, I know its a book but in the darkest power trilogy Chloe is a necromancer by birth, and its typicaly aimed at aiding souls although accidental reanimations can happen like that time she was on the run from lyle house with hotty werewolf bf Simon and Victoria from the evil doctors and shrinks of the Edison group, but Necromancy by its nature is nothing more than Death magic, death is neither one way or the other he simplify does the job and moves on cold precise with no malice or pity. So by its nature while yes its a bit taboo but so was summoning up until end walker bunnies'. Taboo ability's// isnt the same as evil ability's. (yes Chloe is reletable asf in the summoning to me) but still think about in Greece, everyone puts hades as "evil" just because he is the lord and master of the underworld but he is the most fair and good god out of all of them. Appearance and ability's doesn't equal good or evil. In fact most holy and light based things are the true evil/jerks like the Edison group in the darkest power triology.

[Destati]

I would kill for an actual Necromancer/Blood/Death magic-based job (pun not totally intended) in this game. My excitement for Reaper is dimmed ever so slightly with its relation to the Void and Garlemald. I want something more involved with the dead. It doesn't have to be evil, but something more morally grey would be fun.

[RedLolly]

The counter I have to a Necromancer dealing with dead that are unable to pass on is as our WoL "using it correctly" is that such a story could easily be given to a "Medium" as a job without any of the grimdark or morally grey elements of working with blood and rot, and I lack the creativity to think of another angle.


Yeah, Hades (the God, not Emet-Selch) gets the horrid rep because he's so often conflated with the Christian devil. The goddess, Hel, gets tossed into the same pool, having that name and being a maiden with a half dead body, but she choose to oversee the dead so they could relax in the afterlife despite the bad deal she was given.

Oh maybe that could be how it works to give us death magic?

[Littledeathgirl]

The counter I have to a Necromancer dealing with dead that are unable to pass on is as our WoL "using it correctly" is that such a story could easily be given to a "Medium" as a job without any of the grimdark or morally grey elements of working with blood and rot, and I lack the creativity to think of another angle.


Yeah, Hades (the God, not Emet-Selch) gets the horrid rep because he's so often conflated with the Christian devil. The goddess, Hel, gets tossed into the same pool, having that name and being a maiden with a half dead body, but she choose to oversee the dead so they could relax in the afterlife despite the bad deal she was given.

Oh maybe that could be how it works to give us death magic?

Maybe
{place holder} on campus can’t rlly say much and I’ll come back and add to this most likely idk depends

But I’d argue we aren’t warriors of light anyone since the crystal woman is dead (yay) so that opens up to a lot of things. Personally I think wol /wod for our characters was a mistake shoulda kept it as just adventures so all the doors could remain open

[Delsus]

I think the only way Necromancer will work is to make it similar to Forgall from the Weeping City of Mhach, using various dark magic and the ability to summon dark creatures from the void, turning it into another pet job. They could link it to recent discoveries from Mhach (hence the connection to the void). This would keep the job edgy and dark, whilst not quite breaking the fact that necromancy is both taboo and forbidden.

I don't think this would take anything away from Reaper and it's connection to the void because necromancer would actually be summoning from the void. not just using an avatar.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Oh. Necromancer. What you want is to play as a Necromancer. It's actually being added as a sub-job in the Occult Crescent for the North Horn update.

Sub-job would mean that the gameplay for Final Fantasy 14 as a whole is ACTUALLY FUN like Final Fantasy 11, what you're thinking of "Phantom Job" which is the devs lazy, lame, and cheap way of implementing the sub-job system, which is more similar to Eureka in Stormblood, and Bozja in Shadowbringers...

[Dreadlime]

Pop culture aside, necromancy originally referred to a form of divination. The idea was to seek out knowledge and favors from the dead. It could be interesting to see a job that's a mix of medium and exorcist. You speak with and for the dead, helping spirits to settle unfinished business and move on. Maybe mix in some of the modern version of necromancy with the stipulation that you're asking the dead to aid you rather than commanding them.

[ForteNightshade]

I mean they can be made not negative, like they have done with reaper and technically black mage in ff lore. Regardless yes Necromancy is what it technically falls under like my favorite character ever and highly relatable Chloe Saunder, necromancy it just another form of magic that uses the dead. Yes admitly most characters look down on necromancy but that doesn't make it negative or bad, if anything necromancy is the purest form of magic its about the balance completely.

They could, but they won't. Yoshida has repeatedly said they don't want to use anything with negative connotations. The fact Nercomancer, for example, is primarily associated with death means they won't touch it. At least not in the same vein people are asking for. Instead, you'll see something akin to Reaper. In fact, Yoshida used that comparison for why they chose Rogue over Thief, specifically the former can be see as Robinhood-esque while the latter is usually portrayed as selfish.

I think the main reason, is less about the appearance of it being 'evil', and more about the cultural sensitivity towards the concept of 'death' in Japan. They use 'Yon' instead of 'Shi' for the number 4, Hotels might skip over the 4th Floor (usually naming it 3A or just skipping straight to 5), etc. TBH I'm kinda surprised Necro's getting put in Occult Crescent

While definitely a contributing factor, Yoshida has quite literally said they don't want the WoL associated with anything bad or evil. Every example you listed is still considered inherently good by nature. I already outlined that Dark Knight is treated as a vigilante in the lore and Warrior is a metaphor for learning to control ones emotions. Yes, they're both dangerous, but considered good. Necromancer is almost never portrayed that way. Hence why they've avoided it despite constantly being asked. For all of Veilguards faults, they do actually make Necromancy look less evil, but it's still not something Yoshida has any interest in based on his statements.

Put simply, we can point to various ways they could implement these jobs, but it means nothing when the director has said numerous times they don't want to use those names. Necromancer being in OC is a way for them to add it without having it be directly tied to the WoL since phantom jobs aren't canon insomuch as they're "borrowed" power.