[dev1021] Skill Points and EXP values are way too low.

[solracht]

I don't even think the problem is how much worse soloing is than grouping, there's a bigger problem standing before we can even worry about that... the problem is how out of the way and counter intuitive the guildleve system is.

Most new players won't come to the forums to ask which 8 leves they should fail and retry. Most people won't think the system has such an obscure and backwards requirement in order to give you good numbers.

They'll pick up the guildleves offered at the counter, they'll do them, and this will work for a while. Then they'll get to rank ~25-30 around the time they completley run out of favor and then they'll end up in a situation similar to the original poster's, and reach the conclusion that the game is not worth their time.

There is not any kind of obvious hint, or any kind of indication in the game that says experience rewards increase exponentially when a lot of things align. Expecting most players (especially those used to other MMORPGs) to find enjoyment in the current system feels really far-fetched.


Lastly, the new player leaving before being able to experience the guildleve system under the right conditions is not even the only bad scenario: the system is pretty boring for someone who is using it to his advantage. Redoing the same 8 guildleves from rank 30 to 50 can't seriously be considered as a good gameplay feature, can it?

Something needs to be done, honestly.

[Allanon]

First off my numbers are completely accurate, and the data was taken the same day as my post 3/29/2011.

my character
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...cicuid=1545022

When I saw how bad skill points and exp points I was getting i went to my characters lodestone page to see what I started at and compare it to what I was currently at. And started logging my experiences to make this post. So the devs can hear my story and maybe fix it. I got a lot of those find the white light leves which did not yield much SP and made me run all over the map trying to find them. Luck of the draw I suppose. If you say you never get less then 5k I can tell you now that is false seeing as I only got 1695 on 4 of them.

When you say appropriate level I thinking you are meaning higher then 1 star correct? That just isn't possible when imps which check as blue which should be easy prey hit you for 80% of your HP. 2 stars is pretty impossible solo, due to the incoming damage. I even took the advice of fellow in game players and got cure, sacrifice (regen), and second wind to help out as you can see I actually took time to level a few other classes. Even with the ability to heal myself its not really possible to do more then 1 star the amount of incoming damage is too much to heal and if i heal myself all the time the mob will not die since its not being damaged.

I have no reason to lie about what happened. I just want the game improved. It still is very lacking since I had the experience I had that day.

To get a sense of other mmos and leveling and progression rates rates take this for example:
In FFXI which I played today actually I can go from level 75 to 90 in about 4 hours when leveling various jobs. Killed several NMs in abyssea for Empyrean weapons only took a couple hours downed 10 nms got 15/50 items I needed to finish the sword I am working on.

When the FFXI and FFXIV servers were down I played my WoW account, had to play something right, my paladin on WoW is already capped and geared out so started a new character a hunter soloed took her from 1 to 85 the cap in a week all solo with quests, and geared her our for starter raids in 2 days, was doing end game raids after that.

The amount of exp you get solo in FFXIV is way worse then FFXI ever was. When FFXI came out I got to level 30 solo without a problem. Started grouping in the kazham area at that point but it was fairly easy to find groups. Was the 2nd NA player on my server to hit level 75. So I do no a thing or two about leveling fast. It is not easy find groups at all in FFXIV like it as in FFXI. Past accomplishments in games do relate to new games in that it shows a greater understanding of the MMO genre.

We even had videos for FFXI to show off the stuff we were killing before anyone else could http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NzoD6SdE9A

Not to rain on your parade, but FFXI was extremely difficult to level prior to the whining and complaining. Next not to be rude but FF is not for everyone. The games are meant to be hard and you are supposed to feel something when you accomplish something. I don't feel that now. May I suggest you find a good LS to join to get you the EXP/SP you require.

In truth I am tired of the weekend warriors whining saying the game is to hard. They added MP regen which was crazy. They upped the SP you receive to a ridiculous amount. For example a LS member took almost since the start of the game to right before they upped the SP to reach level 50. After they upped the SP that same LS member got 2 jobs to level 50 within 5 weeks. So either they just play non-stop or you are not playing the game enough and exploring enough to find what works for SP and what does not. Furthermore the LS member I am talking about did this mostly soloing.

It seems to me that everyone wants this to be easy so they can reach 50 in 2 days like WoW.....I don't want that. Right now you are not even paying for the game are you suggesting that you would pay for the game if you got all your jobs to 50 before you even have to start paying. This game is way too easy in my book and I am tired of the dev giving into all the weekend warriors whining.

[Winterclaw]

Today I was reading about the skinners box and conditioned responses. One thing that someone mentioned as being a reason for people quitting a game was the pause between rewards and the amount of motivation it kills until you are close to a new reward.

Gamesutra link

So this gets me to thinking... what if the reason that FF14 was poorly received was in part due to either a lack of skinner box designs that most people are used to or implemented it in a sub par way? IE the game is fine, it's the lack of dings/rewards you want that's got people down on it.

So that gets me to this point: remove said designs and just try to make the game fun on its own merits.

[Flower]

Not to rain on your parage, but FFXI was extremely difficult to level prior to the whining and complaining. Next not to be rude but FF is not for everyone. The games are meant to be hard and you are supposed to feel something when you accomplish something. I don't feel that now. May I suggest you find a good LS to join to get you the EXP/SP you require.

In truth I am tired of the weekend warriors whining saying the game is to hard. They added MP regen which was crazy. They upped the SP you receive to a ridiculous amount. For example a LS member took almost since the start of the game to right before they upped the SP to reach level 50. After they upped the SP that same LS member got 2 jobs to level 50 within 5 weeks. So either they just play non-stop or you are not playing the game enough and exploring enough to find what works for SP and what does not. Furthermore the LS member I am talking about did this mostly soloing.

It seems to me that everyone wants this to be easy so they can reach 50 in 2 days like WoW.....I don't want that. Right now you are not even paying for the game are you suggesting that you would pay for the game if you got all your jobs to 50 before you even have to start paying. This game is way too easy in my book and I am tired of the dev giving into all the weekend warriors whining.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Jericho]

Not to rain on your parage, but FFXI was extremely difficult to level prior to the whining and complaining. Next not to be rude but FF is not for everyone. The games are meant to be hard and you are supposed to feel something when you accomplish something. I don't feel that now. May I suggest you find a good LS to join to get you the EXP/SP you require.

In truth I am tired of the weekend warriors whining saying the game is to hard. They added MP regen which was crazy. They upped the SP you receive to a ridiculous amount. For example a LS member took almost since the start of the game to right before they upped the SP to reach level 50. After they upped the SP that same LS member got 2 jobs to level 50 within 5 weeks. So either they just play non-stop or you are not playing the game enough and exploring enough to find what works for SP and what does not. Furthermore the LS member I am talking about did this mostly soloing.

It seems to me that everyone wants this to be easy so they can reach 50 in 2 days like WoW.....I don't want that. Right now you are not even paying for the game are you suggesting that you would pay for the game if you got all your jobs to 50 before you even have to start paying. This game is way too easy in my book and I am tired of the dev giving into all the weekend warriors whining.

Hell yes.

I want it to take 2 years from release for me to get to the level cap that SE decides will be the level cap for the normal duration of the game. I don't want an easy game. I left FFXI when it got easy. I love the length of time that it takes to get to 50 right now, because, lets say, the cap becomes 75? It'll take at least two-three times as long to get the rest of the way. I want to feel good and proud when I get there. I want to some incentive to become awesome at my jobs. Which to me means, "I spent countless hours getting to this level.. I'm putting my heart into this job."

Stop whining.

[Shiyo]

I agree 100% with Allanon and jericho's posts.

[solracht]

Well you're all in for dissapointment, and the post that started the "I agree" chain totally missed the point: leveling is not hard nor even takes a long time in this game - it's simply counter-intuitive, backwards, and repetitive.

[Winterclaw]

They added MP regen which was crazy.

Excuse me but the lack of an MP regen without running back to camp was crazy. This game was supposed to be casual friendly not hard core. And what's with all the casual hate anyways? 5 weeks to max 2 jobs doesn't sound unfair; just because the SP gains were too slow to begin with doesn't mean you should go after people for asking they be adjusted.

This is why I hate leveling systems. People complain when it takes too long, people complain with someone else does it too fast. Just start us at max level and endgame already and cut out the junk.

[Xatsh]

level thm to 20 and you never run out of mp, which took around 1 week at the most.

MP was not a problem at all, pre-mp regen, if people actually leveled the class that delt with mp management to use the abilities on their other classes... you know how the armory system was designed.

But I agree this whole, must be at endgame in 2 week mentality needs to end. I want a mmo not an online rpg.... a mmo should take years and years to complete not days. I am not complaining about the current system much because chances are rank 50 will not be the cap for long, considering half the areas in game have mobs too strong for a group of 50s to successfully kill. I am good as long as the SP required rank 50+ continues to scale up and the sp rates remain the same as they are now.

[Allanon]

My whole point here is simple if you don't like the game and think it is too hard then don't play. If you are too lazy to figure out how to manage MP or get SP then maybe this game is not for you. Making the game easy does not equal fun.