Idea for TBN

[Mikey_R]

Yeah TBN not breaking is the punishment, and to be honest, I wouldn't care that much if TBN stayed the same. My suggestion is here mainly for thinking of ways to reduce TBNs jank (like it punishing you for gearing up, the WHM stunlock, many that are already common knowledge) and adding a way XIV's DRK could have HP sac, but HP sac does come with the con of that being someone else's problem rather than yours. However, I do wish people were more open-minded to the idea of HP sac because there are certainly ways to include such a feature without it being obnoxious.

I think this is going to be a agree to disagree situation, however:

-TBN not breaking is the punishment, adding blood price negates that punishment (as you will always use it, even if it is at 1 second left of TBN). This essentially makes the skill use 3000 MP for a shield, if it doesn't break, you lose 10% HP, as opposed to lose an edge/flood. The punishment is far less so you don't need to plan the TBN at all as you know you can pop it at any time.
-As for WHM in trash packs, why are you using TBN when the WHM has started to use Holy? 99% of WHMs are going to use Holy at the start of a trash pull, so it is then the skill of the DRK to not use TBN in that window.

(This applies to Carighan as well) The devs didn't want DRK to sacrifice HP, this is a consistent thing since DRK's release in HW, so, instead, they made them sacrifice MP, with the DRK's MP economy being entirely managed by the DRK themselves and that was their compromise.

I have made many posts in the past about HP sac and as a short summary, if the DRK could recover HP in some way, it would either be too much healing or too little, too much invalidates the healer, too little gives healers extra to heal. There is also the frequency at which you can sacrifice HP as well as how much you sacrifice. Too often, you run the risk of not having enough HP to survive mechanics (at which point it is the healer's fault for not healing enough) or too little and it is inconsequential that you don't have to work around it at all. There is also gear differences as well as a slew of other factors. This might again be an agree to disagree situation, but that is a short summary of my thoughts.

[Carighan]

Yeah true and the only consistent thing FF versions have shown is sacrificing HP, usually for extra damage. Beyond that Dark Knight has always been pretty variable.

[Zarkovitch]

Just give me 3 more secs on my tbn and I tbn my co tank and gain my edge. Ezpz

[Rithy255]

Just give me 3 more secs on my tbn and I tbn my co tank and gain my edge. Ezpz

I think this just kinda defeats the purpose of having it have to break in the first place. it would pretty much always break then.

I don't know why but if you suggest TBN should just function like any other tank cooldown people will be angry so they come up with convoluted ways to defend it.

Personally I think a ALL risk no reward cooldown sucks, so TBN should either reward you for good use or just be no risk, either works for me I just dont want a cooldown that's only punishment. As said above me giving 10 blood gauge and a free MP use of flood would be awesome quite honestly, it does need to be a Very small increase in total dps but giving DRK something to optimize would be lovely.

[Carighan]

I think this just kinda defeats the purpose of having it have to break in the first place. it would pretty much always break then.

Yeah a better fix would be to give it invuln-like client-priority. Meaning it starts absorbing the moment you press the button, not ~2 seconds later.

[Carighan]

If you never lose the edge/flood, wouldn't it be far "cleaner" design to just remove the 10% buff entirely then? It will be impossible to not keep up, so there's no reason to have it any more.

(And honestly I'd go further, remove edge, remove flood, and make TBN take 100% of available mana for a variable amount of shield of variable duration, both based on MP consumed, but that's just me)

And yeah I know, MP is what they use instead, it's just a bit meh because it means they can never square it with previous iterations of Dark Knights. Although to be fair FFXIV is so big and so long-lived, it is the authority on what say, "Dark Knight" as a class means. Not the older games.

[Sazuzaki]

If you never lose the edge/flood, wouldn't it be far "cleaner" design to just remove the 10% buff entirely then? It will be impossible to not keep up, so there's no reason to have it any more.

Already kind of like that to be honest. If you lose an edge, all you need to do is just use another edge. All TBN really does if it doesn't break is just make your burst more boring. It's a punishment, but not exactly a fun one. But that's just my view.

Although to be fair FFXIV is so big and so long-lived, it is the authority on what say, "Dark Knight" as a class means. Not the older games.

Ehhh.... I see where you're coming from. If XIV had been more bold with their class design, I would agree. However, they're prioritizing streamlining the jobs over fun atm which is my main issue, but that's also just my opinion. I don't mind DRK being more of a Mystic/Magic Knight in XIV, but they need to make it thematic enough to really push an identity for it. I just don't really see the 'darkness' in how current DRK plays.

[Alahard]

The main consensus I see is

1) Needs to maintain ( or extend) class identity, aka, skill expression
2) What causes a lack of skill expression is out of the players control

As a result, removing the dps aspect of tbn is

So here is my take ->

1) Make TBN refund in the form of blood. Now smart, consistent use of TBN is a dps increase over flood ( instead of neutral). Bad use still negative. ( edit -> i know the extra flood in burst is a dps increase, but it just feels meh. Also fits in better with point 2)

2) Because it's in the form of blood, partial TBN breaks refund partial blood. This way at least being close to breaking is dps neutral.

3) Calculate blood gain based on damage taken if no external defensive's existed. The drk screwing up causing to much self defensive, skill issue. The pf tank/healers being inconsistent and randomly throwing tons of mit on you out of nowhere screwing up your dps, rage issue. ( It is rare, but it has happened to me). EDIT -> I might have not thought this third point through, it does make for a really broken off tank button. hmm...



The only other things I can think require a full rework of the job, or a boring flat mit with no dps ties.

[GraceHorizon]

Personally I think a ALL risk no reward cooldown sucks, so TBN should either reward you for good use or just be no risk, either works for me I just dont want a cooldown that's only punishment. As said above me giving 10 blood gauge and a free MP use of flood would be awesome quite honestly, it does need to be a Very small increase in total dps but giving DRK something to optimize would be lovely.

I like it. If breaking TBN gives a little gauge in addition to the current Dark Arts, it’s a slight situational DPS gain. It’s an avenue for skill expression and it also gives a stronger tie between the offensive and defensive kits of DRK. (That’s something that’s sadly lacking from many jobs: abilities that interact with each other and form a synergistic whole.) If gauge overcapping is problematic you could have it give an instant retributive strike against whatever broke it instead.