On "Hardcore"

[Lux_Rayna]

I feel like the word has been thrown around so much in the past 10 years since the introduction of the casual MMO that it has lost all sense of meaning. And with 2.0 fast approaching, hopefully full of hardcore content, I feel like we need to get the misconceptions out of the way. Now let me preface by saying I am no hardcore player, and I do not claim to know what "hardcore" means; clearly, I couldn't be qualified to do so having never been there myself. But im old enough to have been around the way in the days of Lineage II, DaoC, Asheron's Call, Diablo, and Everquest...so I at least have an "image" or an "impression" of the idea in my mind. On with it then.


From what I understood, hardcore was about risk and difficulty. I remember game modes where if your character died, that was it, you had to reroll. I remember systems that seemed so complicated (D&D says hi, for me anyway) that you actually had to be smart in order to do well. And then there were bosses that were so stupidly overpowered, you had to be extremely proficient to actually win. More or less, this is my image of hardcore as I recall it. A place where few would bother treading, and fewer would have anything to show for it.


But somewhere along the way I keep hearing about other things being hardcore, that don't quite fit what I remember. Things like low-drop rate content, super rare items, lottery type gear upgrades...etc etc. But for me, as a player, anyone can achieve those things with luck. Heck anyone can achieve those things with time. So, honestly, can it really be called hardcore? Like I said, hardcore as I remember it filtered out a lot of ppl. It was never a question of luck and time, although they did play a factor in your survival/accomplishments. From what I read and heard, it was flat-out survival of the fittest. You were either good enough/smart enough to do it, or you weren't.


So with that said am I crazy? And if not, is that the kinda hardcore content ppl are looking for? Or are they looking for time-sinks? Or are time-sinks and hardcore synonymous, and I just never understood the whole hardcore thing?

[Krausus]

for what its worth I see Hardcore the same way you do

[XxOstiaxX]

Hardcore MMO Playes: are people with lots and lots of time on hand, that are able to commit a vast majority of it, to a video game, hence why they defend and promote content that is catered around low % Drop rates, and content that roadblocks casuals or semi hardcore players from their content.

In short: They are the crowd that want to be the special snowflakes, just because they have no lives. Skill has nothing to do with being hardcore(In their eyes) it is all about the ability to commit your life, for a game.

[Reiterpallasch]

In short: They are the crowd that want to be the special snowflakes, just because they have no lives. Skill has nothing to do with being hardcore(In their eyes) it is all about the ability to commit your life, for a game.

Skill absolutely has a lot to do with it. You can't be hardcore if you flat out suck. Hardcore players aren't "unique little snowflakes" because they have no lives, they're "unique little snowflakes" because they're flat out better than you, and want content to cater to their level of skill that you just can't ever hope to succeed in.

Also lol @ the no life comment. You don't need to have no life to be successful in a game. You do however usually need a bit of dedication and skill, which judging by your comment is something you lack in both regards.

[XxOstiaxX]

Skill absolutely has a lot to do with it. You can't be hardcore if you flat out suck. Hardcore players aren't "unique little snowflakes" because they have no lives, they're "unique little snowflakes" because they're flat out better than you, and want content to cater to their level of skill that you just can't ever hope to succeed in.

Also lol @ the no life comment. You don't need to have no life to be successful in a game. You do however usually need a bit of dedication and skill, which judging by your comment is something you lack in both regards.

You sir seem a bit Butthurt ? Did i strike a never ? And as it was already mentioned in the post above yours, there is no correlation between being hardcore and being skillful at a game, the two are not mutually exclusive to one another, one can be hardcore and have absolutly 0 skills as far as downing bosses, positioning, and truly being a skillful as far as combat.

Here is a question: "You got a random boss, that drops BIS weapons, and has no pop timer, you can run him until you go blue in the face, but he has a 1% of dropping the weapons, who will get them first ? The casual player who can spend 8-10 hours a week, or the hardcore player who plays 8-12 hours a day ?

[Byakko]

Criticizing someone for playing too much, and saying they have no life is such a cop-out response when people are angry they don't have the time to get things they want. You don't know what someone's real life situation is like. I know I had a hell of alot more down time in college to be logged in, and people could have said the same thing about me then, but I certainly wouldn't say I had no life. Some people play more than you, who cares get over it.

[Reiterpallasch]

Here is a question: "You got a random boss, that drops BIS weapons, and has no pop timer, you can run him until you go blue in the face, but he has a 1% of dropping the weapons, who will get them first ? The casual player who can spend 8-10 hours a week, or the hardcore player who plays 8-12 hours a day ?

Since it drops BiS gear, I'm going with the person skilled enough to beat it, since when it comes to content with varying tiers of difficulty, the best gear will come from the hardest version of the boss. Someone who plays casually (as in not aggressively, with time not being a factor) will generally not have the gear to take down the boss, nor will they have the experience and know-how for said boss fight. The hardcore person on the other hand will have gear that is up to par, and will have the experience to finish the encounter.

Playtime has very little to do with whether someone is casual or hardcore. IMO a casual merely plays for fun, with no regard for 'advancement' since being the best at anything isn't a concern to them. The hardcore person will strive to be the best at whatever they can, be it gear, damage, healing etc.

[Amyas]

Since it drops BiS gear, I'm going with the person skilled enough to beat it, since when it comes to content with varying tiers of difficulty, the best gear will come from the hardest version of the boss. Someone who plays casually (as in not aggressively, with time not being a factor) will generally not have the gear to take down the boss, nor will they have the experience and know-how for said boss fight. The hardcore person on the other hand will have gear that is up to par, and will have the experience to finish the encounter.

Playtime has very little to do with whether someone is casual or hardcore. IMO a casual merely plays for fun, with no regard for 'advancement' since being the best at anything isn't a concern to them. The hardcore person will strive to be the best at whatever they can, be it gear, damage, healing etc.

I don't get how 'skill' comes in when all you need to play efficiently is the ability to read, research, and listen. imho anyways. guess it is a skill to some folks, but I like to think most humans enjoy learning, s'why we've came far enough to play crazy ass games with each other around the world...

[Valmonte]

Since it drops BiS gear, I'm going with the person skilled enough to beat it, since when it comes to content with varying tiers of difficulty, the best gear will come from the hardest version of the boss. Someone who plays casually (as in not aggressively, with time not being a factor) will generally not have the gear to take down the boss, nor will they have the experience and know-how for said boss fight. The hardcore person on the other hand will have gear that is up to par, and will have the experience to finish the encounter.

Playtime has very little to do with whether someone is casual or hardcore. IMO a casual merely plays for fun, with no regard for 'advancement' since being the best at anything isn't a concern to them. The hardcore person will strive to be the best at whatever they can, be it gear, damage, healing etc.

who would you invite first given that you just met them and no nothing about them?
a lucky ass casual player that's got full Dark Light and a moogle weapon or a shitty lucked hardcore striver who cant even get a decent double on his cobalt gear with out it blowing up? you see somewhere along the line its no longer about skill but about shear luck and who's got the gear to offset there skills as a player.

you see i don't really care if your the baddest hardcorest MuthaFker thats evergraced video games, if all you can say Me Me Me your useless to everyone, server community included. i've seen more than my fare share of selfproclaimed Hardcore players that fall right into the ME catagory.

[Krausus]

You sir seem a bit Butthurt ? Did i strike a never ? And as it was already mentioned in the post above yours, there is no correlation between being hardcore and being skillful at a game, the two are not mutually exclusive to one another, one can be hardcore and have absolutly 0 skills as far as downing bosses, positioning, and truly being a skillful as far as combat.

Here is a question: "You got a random boss, that drops BIS weapons, and has no pop timer, you can run him until you go blue in the face, but he has a 1% of dropping the weapons, who will get them first ? The casual player who can spend 8-10 hours a week, or the hardcore player who plays 8-12 hours a day ?

sorry but not everyone shares the same view on what hardcore means, that is exactly why this thread was made, some think it means time played others think it means dedication and skill, i personally have always lumped it in with dedication and skill. In fact I think that was the original meaning and it has since started adopting time played by the masses of baddies out there.