On "Hardcore"

[KujinRen]

For me, hardcore has to do with your attitude towards a certain objective. If your guild is strict on attendance, demanding of how you spec your character to the tee or have an extremely militant raiding environment where it is always serious business... I consider this "hardcore". In my opinion, you don't have to be "hardcore" to complete the hardest of encounters.

When I played World of Warcraft, my guild was able to clear every Heroic Mode content but we did not consider ourselves "hardcore" because we only raided 2 hours a day for 3 days a week. That's a total of 6 hours per week. Because of this, we considered ourselves casual yet skilled enough to compete with "hardcore" guilds for server first with much less time invested. In fact, we were extremely laid back during raid times and usually joked around in ventrilo during progression.

For the sake of this discussion, I will use World of Warcraft references. Fights such as the "big bosses" like Lady Sinestra, Ragnaros (Cataclysm version), Kil Jaeden, Lich King and Yogg-Saron are examples of hard encounters that require coordination with your raid members. For the less competent players, this can be considered "hardcore" content because they are end-game encounters that would not be easily taken down by less coordinated raids such as PUGs. You don't have to be "hardcore" to tackle these bosses. Just understand the mechanics and do what you're supposed to do and your raid should be successful.

RNG drop rates, farming tokens week after week and and other time sinks are not what I consider "hardcore".

I appreciate having different difficulty modes for raids such as Normal and Hard. Hard mode is meant for players to challenge themselves further and I think casual gamers should not complain about this because that's what normal mode is for. The gear is slightly better from hard mode encounters and the players who complete this content deserve it because, well, they earned it. I don't think everyone should have the same gear because that takes away the sense of accomplishment for those who were able to tackle the harder version of a content.

[Lirion]

For me, hardcore means difficulty of content. Not necessarily a time sink, but boss or raid encounters that are actually challenging. An extremely difficult encounter can be done in 10 minutes if done correctly (for example), however (I hate to say it but) the majority of gamers are average to less-competent when it comes to the difficulty of hard fights, therefore it creates a time sink by smashing their heads against a wall repeatedly.

For the sake of this discussion, I will use World of Warcraft references. Fights such as the "big bosses" like Lady Sinestra, Ragnaros (Cataclysm version), Kil Jaeden, Lich King and Yogg-Saron are examples of hard encounters that require coordination with your raid members. This is the kind of "hardcore" that I enjoy.

RNG drop rates, farming tokens week after week and and other time sinks are not what I consider "hardcore".

Pretty much what this guy said. Doing hamlet 300 times to get seals is not what I would call hardcore, I would call it a lot of time being wasted. Now beating Garuda in 5 min or less or beating Ifrit extreme, that's what I would call hardcore.

So IMO.
Farming same stuff for months = Not hardcore
Beating extremely hard bosses = Hardcore

And I bet a lot of players would be able to beat those bosses but because they don't have the time to do hamlet over and over and over and over again they wont get the relics or whatever item there is. Are they not hardcore now because of it?

[Aceofspades]

hamlet is one thing, I can be wrong , but I think this thread is geared more twards current dungeons and bosses regaurding the timed runs and "speed run" concepts. All it takes to learn how to do a speed run is ALOT of time to spam it till your group memorizes every nook and cranny in that dungeon / boss fight and then it becomes a game of spaming somthing till your dead bored of it

[Lirion]

hamlet is one thing, I can be wrong , but I think this thread is geared more twards current dungeons and bosses regaurding the timed runs and "speed run" concepts. All it takes to learn how to do a speed run is ALOT of time to spam it till your group memorizes every nook and cranny in that dungeon / boss fight and then it becomes a game of spaming somthing till your dead bored of it

I'm not disagreeing with the OP, some just seem to think that if you play the game 8 hours a day every day doing the same stuff over and over again to get the drops, you're a hardcore player and I don't agree with that at all. It just means you have a lot of time to waste on a video game. Now of course you can play 8-12 hours a day everyday and still be hardcore but being a hardcore player does not = time spent in a game. And that was that I was answering to.

If we take Vanquish as an example, pretty hard game on hardest difficulty. Say someone beats it in a week playing only 2 hours a day. It's not the time spent on the game, it's the fact that this person beat it on the hardest difficulty that makes him/her a hardcore player.

I would rather take something like beat all the primals on very hard mode and then get the relic over what we have now.

[Aceofspades]

I'm not disagreeing with the OP, some just seem to think that if you play the game 8 hours a day every day doing the same stuff over and over again to get the drops, you're a hardcore player and I don't agree with that at all. It just means you have a lot of time to waste on a video game. Now of course you can play 8-12 hours a day everyday and still be hardcore but being a hardcore player does not = time spent in a game. And that was that I was answering to.

If we take Vanquish as an example, pretty hard game on hardest difficulty. Say someone beats it in a week playing only 2 hours a day. It's not the time spent on the game, it's the fact that this person beat it on the hardest difficulty that makes him/her a hardcore player.

I would rather take something like beat all the primals on very hard mode and then get the relic over what we have now.

we are basicly saying the same thing.

[Lux_Rayna]

hamlet is one thing, I can be wrong , but I think this thread is geared more twards current dungeons and bosses regaurding the timed runs and "speed run" concepts. All it takes to learn how to do a speed run is ALOT of time to spam it till your group memorizes every nook and cranny in that dungeon / boss fight and then it becomes a game of spaming somthing till your dead bored of it

Honestly its geared towards wherever ppl want to take it. I, personally, was thinking more of dungeons/bosses sort of thing. But I want to know what everyone else thinks/sees when that word "hardcore" gets thrown around. And this thread is an indication that not everyone is talking about the same thing, which is interesting in and of itself. Generation gap? Maybe.

But since we're going there, is there anything hardcore about hamlet? What about getting top 3 prov regularly for seals? I'm just curious lol.

[Orophin]

But since we're going there, is there anything hardcore about hamlet? What about getting top 3 prov regularly for seals? I'm just curious lol.

Getting top 3 can simply mean you have more money than everyone else and can simply buy the turn-ins.

Being everyone else that isn't top 3 and spamming hamlet for 8 hours at a time, that could be considered "hardcore" by my definition of running content for long stretches of time.

[Kiote]

Hardcore literally means to be completely dedicated to something. It has nothing to do with skill. That's why people on these forums are always in a fight. They seem to think Elite and Hardcore are the same thing. They are not.

Elite means to be the best of the best. Elite players are the ones who can take on any fight and win, no matter how difficult the Devs make it. Elite players are the ones who beat Raven Hard Mode in less than a week. These players are undeniably the best at the game. Anyone who tries to deny them this is just jealous or hating for the sake of hating.

Hardcore means you are 100% dedicated to the game. You play all the time and never want to run out of content. People who complete all relics and all achievements and all quests. These are the Hardcore. They are not the ones who tackle all the most difficult content the fastest, but they will not stop playing this game regardless of what other people tell them. They will not submit to allowing Casual players getting the same rewards without the effort. Hardcore players are the ones who complain about things going into easymode.

Elite does not Equal Hardcore and Hardcore does not Equal elite. Yes, there is significant cross-over. Most Elite players are Hardcore players. Very few Hardcore players are Elite.

[TheFatHousecat]

Elite means to be the best of the best. Elite players are the ones who can take on any fight and win, no matter how difficult the Devs make it. Elite players are the ones who beat Raven Hard Mode in less than a week. These players are undeniably the best at the game. Anyone who tries to deny them this is just jealous or hating for the sake of hating.

Hi.................

[heit]

I remember when it was called being 'a fan' of the game and not 'hardcore' or 'casual'

Everyone is here to play the game in their own way; isn't that what an MMORPG is all about!?