Bard Needs ‘Looked At’

[Connor]

Nobody else is talking about it (I guess nobody cares anymore lol) but Bard’s ability set has a bunch of question marks and weirdness as a result of being a patchwork of various concepts across various expansions and I’d like to address my view on them.


* Repelling Shot -why? Why is it still here? What are you even for?

* Nature’s Minne - this cooldown is absolutely not proportional to the generally useless effect

* Warden’s Paean - Nobody likes Esuna. Personally I find the 45s cooldown on a goddamn Esuna just…offensive.

* Radiant Encore - why did you give us something that actually looks cool/bard-like then lock it behind an arbitrary raid buff? Why do you hate me Yoshi?

* Foe Requiem - can I have my song back please? Please, sir, I want some more, sir!

* Song Rotation - yes, yes, I’m aware it’s a skill issue blah blah blah but it’s incredibly annoying trying to manoeuvre your songs in dungeons when everything dies in less than 45 seconds. Then you have to go into the boss fight and you’re only like 1/3 of the way through Paeon. And ofc, dying at certain times can absolutely destroy your entire rotation by effectively locking you out of songs depending on cooldowns. Every job has this to some extent but Bard has it particularly bad (Summoner too)

* Empyreal Arrow / Resonant Arrow - Charges? Maybe? Also what if Resonant had a small chance to proc on Refulgent use? I wanna do more cool backflips lol

* Wide Volley - give me it back SE I don’t wanna do Toto-Rak just to have my coolest skill back lol. Why not make it like Burst/Refulgent where every Wide Volley has a chance of proc’ing Shadowbite? (Why do we have this DRK looking ability anyway lol when did Bards become agents of darkness?)

* Bard songs - I am once again voicing my utter distaste at all of Bards songs being reduced to dps stances. You’re telling me that singing a song about a kindly sage travelling the world makes me shoot heart-piercing arrows faster ??? The song about an army marching forward makes you shoot an arrow faster? I don’t even know what’s going on with Minuet. You sing a song about a wanderer and that…makes you shoot laser beams, I guess? It’s like a sick joke. I want to sing my songs in battle again and support the party like a real Bard; I never agreed to be an Archer With Various Musical Instruments Stuck up their Ass.

* This applies to the physical ranged role as a whole but like, they clearly have no idea what it’s supposed to be/do anymore and are just throwing random stuff at it in the hopes something will stick. Stop. You can do better SE.

[Carighan]

Yeah they'll look at bard. Then look away to work on other jobs. :P

But yeah I in particular mind how Bards have these songs, but they don't even work as the main job mechanic. Like, just copy song-weaving from EQ1 or DAoC or so wholesale. Make that the primary gameplay mechanic of the job, what you spend most of the button presses on. Done!

[Connor]

Yeah they'll look at bard. Then look away to work on other jobs

Pretty much lol.

And yeah agreed on the songs too. There’s so many other ways they could’ve done them evidenced by many other stuff including MMOs, so making them dps stances just feels like lack of creativity and not a deliberately thought out move lol. Plus, who the hell can sing a 45s song in the 0.5s we perform for in battle lol? Are we like, singing really, really fast? As unexciting as they are I’d be happy with just a cast time on them like they had originally so you’re actually ‘singing in battle’ and not just shooting arrows while you imagine you’re singing lol. Plus it also solves the ‘dying is super punishing’ issue if they’re readily available but limited by cast time /duration/coda/MP costs instead of ‘it’s all cooldowns’.

[JohncarterIx]

bards need a ott more power

[mallleable]

Yes, please rework BRD. Its rotation is too fragile. It is built like glass cannon, but with out the actual cannon part.

I will say however, that Repelling Shot is really nice for weapons in m11s, especially for evil sword into scythe combos.

[Jeeqbit]

I am once again voicing my utter distaste at all of Bards songs being reduced to dps stances. You’re telling me that singing a song about a kindly sage travelling the world makes me shoot heart-piercing arrows faster ??? The song about an army marching forward makes you shoot an arrow faster? I don’t even know what’s going on with Minuet. You sing a song about a wanderer and that…makes you shoot laser beams, I guess? It’s like a sick joke. I want to sing my songs in battle again and support the party like a real Bard

The songs are meant to inspire. Often music can make people excited and move/dance faster. It could wake them up. It could remind them of what they are fighting for if it's emotional music, because music modifies and amplifies emotions and makes us do things we wouldn't normally.

For example, depressing music could increase how depressed someone is beyond what is natural, while positive music could increase how positive and happy someone is beyond what they would normally be without it. It can motivate them. And lyrics can be suggestive to the point of actually modifying a person's behaviour.

This is why I don't intentionally listen to music, especially with lyrics, outside of the game itself, because I don't want my feelings and behaviour to be modified or amplified by music - sometimes it can be amplified in a positive way but I believe sometimes it is amplified in a negative way.

The songs all give damage buffs to the entire party, such as crit, dh or damage. This happens due to popular request. I remember they actually removed the party effects at one point so that Bard could deal higher overall damage, but everyone complained enough that they restored the party damage buffs (at the expense of Bard's personal damage).

[Connor]

The songs are meant to inspire. Often music can make people excited and move/dance faster. It could wake them up. It could remind them of what they are fighting for if it's emotional music, because music modifies and amplifies emotions and makes us do things we wouldn't normally.

For example, depressing music could increase how depressed someone is beyond what is natural, while positive music could increase how positive and happy someone is beyond what they would normally be without it. It can motivate them. And lyrics can be suggestive to the point of actually modifying a person's behaviour.

This is why I don't intentionally listen to music, especially with lyrics, outside of the game itself, because I don't want my feelings and behaviour to be modified or amplified by music - sometimes it can be amplified in a positive way but I believe sometimes it is amplified in a negative way.

The songs all give damage buffs to the entire party, such as crit, dh or damage. This happens due to popular request. I remember they actually removed the party effects at one point so that Bard could deal higher overall damage, but everyone complained enough that they restored the party damage buffs (at the expense of Bard's personal damage).

I appreciate the advice but the questions were rhetorical not literal. And frankly, none of that makes any sense to me. Who in the world would be inspired by their own song that they perform? I mean, I guess if you’re a narcissist maybe. Inspiring other people , yeah sure that makes sense. Inspiring yourself to shoot harder with a bow? That really doesn’t lol.

I’m not sure what the last point is referencing. I know; I was there lol. What relevance does that have to the topic of them being literal dps stances in current design? (that just so happen to have the effect of buffing the party purely due to popular demand). You hit them once every 45 seconds in a fixed rotation and the support effect is irrelevant because you need to do it for personal dps anyway

[MicahZerrshia]

Bard in its current form is a Ranger plain and simple. They need to lean into the bard motif a lil more first and foremost. Like why are so many of our moves bow shots isntead of songs? DoTs could easily be dirges, LB3 should be something Operatic. Raging Strikes, and like half of the dps abilities should be songs or at least somewhat music/chant related.

Of course Scholar now transforms into an angel like a priestly class instead of an academic one, so I don't think they really know or care what they are doing when it comes to how jobs are styled.

[Shyxx]

Bard in its current iteration should be top 1-2 in damage considering SE's "difficulty tax". It's too much work for too little payoff. I'd like them to remove some of the jank but don't make it easier just remove the tax the validity of which was already dead a long time ago but was officially buried with Viper

[Jeeqbit]

Inspiring other people , yeah sure that makes sense. Inspiring yourself to shoot harder with a bow? That really doesn’t

The point I'm making really is that, in ARR, the class design was very much lore-driven. Every action and ability was designed to make sense in a lore way, but players quickly discovered that this was annoying, impractical for how people actually play, and so they were changed over time to reflect how people actually play and what people actually need when doing content, so now although things may be aimed at lore to a degree, they are also practical.

They seemed to see casting the songs as impractical, not to mention how Foe's would pull bosses on a regular basis. And then of course they wanted to extend the effect to all ranged physical jobs like Machinist, before then flat out removing TP and the ability to affect others' MP.

I think another issue with Bard is, because their rotation is technically just spamming 1 GCD with an occasional proc or DoT refresh, they had to figure out a way to create some sort of rotation like other jobs have, so that they don't have a literal healer rotation, and I guess this is how they decided to go about it. It also gave them a way to sort of grow the rotation in each song if they want.