Phoenix down should be usable in Normal trials and raids

[Deejudanne]

rather have them removed completely

[Veritas-Ancora]

Phoenix Down only matters when the healer dies.

In 4-player content, it makes sense to rez the healer.

Should that apply to 8-player when both healers die? I don't know.

[Gurgeh]

This is 'not' aimed at the OP, their opinion is a full 100% as valid as mine, but it doesn't work for what I would want out of the game.

If some people 'want' to use phoenix downs that's fine. I won't stop them.
Me, I 'want' dungeons and normal raids to wipe more often, so I won't be using them.

I'm struggling to maintain the illusion that mitigation as a tank has much meaning now. The truth is it has that with phoenix downs it now has none. Its a style choice and thats it. If you die its not the healers problem anymore, you phoenix yourself I assume? If someone else dies while your down, again they just phoenix down themselves.
I'm also not buying a single phoenix down. It was bad enough having to use extortionately expensive food for extremes, that were effectively mandatory. Its the disingenuousness of it. At least make having a 99 stack of food a game system forced entry requirement. I don't want a single thing that is going to cost more gil, which is just yet another advantage to people who use crafting QoL add-ons, and the other myriad ways to abuse and exploit the game and get gil rich easier. I can't believe submarine farming is still a thing. Just switch it off and dump the craftables in a store until you can do something about it. That's a busy 2 weeks with an excel sheet and 2 weeks coding.
If you want to me to use phoenix down in a dungeon, and if they are supposed to "cost effectively nothing", then don't waste a second of my time, and just make it an ability with no cooldown, which if there is any argument that every one should be ready to use phoenix downs, they might as well be then.
Food toxicity from highend now in the casual game. Yay. I can see it already.

I'm amazed that the healers aren't up in arms about phoenix downs. Or are they just... that... crushed now. Red mage? Now everyone is a their own red mage baby!

They should have just given healers only, their own self raise for dungeons. To help anxious players tackle their first 'expert' dungeons while not at full team +10ilvl cap.

[Kemiko]

Back when this change was first made, I had the stance that they should've been allowed in 8-man content to begin with rather than it be arbitrarily unavailable. Like Raise, Phoenix Down is a FF staple and it should exist and serve it's purpose as an item-resource alternative to Raise that non-Raise casting jobs can use, in particular, on the Raise casting job should they go down. I've never been in argument for it being unavailable for Extreme or harder content. Story 8-man trials and, literally, Normal Raids are where it would shine most.

Folks shouldn't be afraid to wipe from time to time, but I do not see the difference in allowing something to literally hard cast raise with an item vs. being pressured into thinking they should play one of the 5 jobs with it just so people have a better chance to experience the content. My stance hasn't changed.

[Valence]

Frankly they could extend it to everything, what would it even change even in savage lol

Good luck raising in time with phoenix downs in savage+ content. Party is probably gonna bite the dust before the raise even resolves anyway. And it would solve the perpetual lie that the devs have kept gaslighting the community with that SMN and RDM's raise tax is somehow justified.

[Asako]

I'd agree for this too. NM and Trials are also casual content. Enrages were removed from them years ago so who cares if we have to scoop someone with a Phoenix? It's still an 8 second cast time which is fair with a 4 minute cooldown. Honestly I'd prefer they extend it to these and remove Raise from non healer jobs as the huge cooldown is a better balancing agent.

Again, it's casual so it doesn't really matter. The 4 man change was great and I've used plenty of them to scoop people.

[Arrius]

I'd agree for this too. NM and Trials are also casual content. Enrages were removed from them years ago so who cares if we have to scoop someone with a Phoenix? It's still an 8 second cast time which is fair with a 4 minute cooldown. Honestly I'd prefer they extend it to these and remove Raise from non healer jobs as the huge cooldown is a better balancing agent.

Again, it's casual so it doesn't really matter. The 4 man change was great and I've used plenty of them to scoop people.

If the players still manage to hit their head on that low bar of difficulty, maybe it's better they work on themselves to overcome it - The encounters only get snappier over the expansions.
So I am with Deejudanne - Keep the Phoenix Down away.

[CaptainLagbeard]

I still mostly say no.

But I am willing to compromise... Remove Tank's abilities to heal other people, and bring enrage timers to Normal Raids and Trials. Then I'd be ok with Phoenix Downs in them.

[CCheshire]

I still mostly say no.

But I am willing to compromise... Remove Tank's abilities to heal other people, and bring enrage timers to Normal Raids and Trials. Then I'd be ok with Phoenix Downs in them.

Wait, hold on like some ppl already struggle with normal content, and why make it even more miserable for them? If anyone thought I find raids and trials to be too easy, they can join the savage raiders on Aether and everyone else who is hitting their heads against the PF wall with prog and re-clearing each new reset on Tuesday.

No one will think having feathers with a super long CD will ruin the gameplay because you can't spam them either way, like sometimes you can't save everyone with them.

[Asari5]

some people yearn for harder than casual content without having to bash their heads against a wall for hours. and normal raid is the closest we have to that