Sincere Question...No Troll...Has SE Gone Full Regress?!?!

[theunhappypotato]

i like the relic stuff, its fine to have something todo for more than 1 week its an mmo afterall the game is already pretty forgiving when it comes to grinds

[PercibelTheren]

i like the relic stuff, its fine to have something todo for more than 1 week its an mmo afterall the game is already pretty forgiving when it comes to grinds

Or we could, you know, have some actually engaging content that people do because it's enjoyable, not just because it takes forever.

[theunhappypotato]

Or we could, you know, have some actually engaging content that people do because it's enjoyable, not just because it takes forever.

idk man so far almost every piece of content i did so far was pretty ennjoyable enganging even tho i havent done m5s-m8s and forked tower, so its fine to have a nice braindead grind every now and then and if you're not doing ults then you dont really have a need for the relic anyways

[MayuAmakura]

idk man so far almost every piece of content i did so far was pretty ennjoyable enganging even tho i havent done m5s-m8s and forked tower, so its fine to have a nice braindead grind every now and then and if you're not doing ults then you dont really have a need for the relic anyways

Braindead grind is a bad game design when it has nothing else to offer. Simple as that. Considering that huge grind are mostly done with bots and 3rd party tools, that explains how "fun" they are.

[theunhappypotato]

Braindead grind is a bad game design when it has nothing else to offer. Simple as that. Considering that huge grind are mostly done with bots and 3rd party tools, that explains how "fun" they are.

it has glowy weapons to offer at the end, and most people here make the first relic step out to be the worst thing they ever did even tho if you just do it for like an hour or two each evening (not even in OC) you can have the relic together by the end of the week, its not that hard and the second step is also done pretty fast so i seriously dont know why people complain about it here we finally have a piece of casual content thats not done in 2 hours and thats also wrong

[Kaurhz]

it has glowy weapons to offer at the end, and most people here make the first relic step out to be the worst thing they ever did even tho if you just do it for like an hour or two each evening (not even in OC) you can have the relic together by the end of the week, its not that hard and the second step is also done pretty fast so i seriously dont know why people complain about it here we finally have a piece of casual content thats not done in 2 hours and thats also wrong

IMO, the issue I took with the grind is that RNG-based ones simply are annoying to make measurable goals on.. You either get the thing, or you don't.. By contrast doing things like a Light farm objective-completion oriented ones (e.g., complete dungeons xyz).. It's the presentation of it that matters a lot, IMO.

Also LMAOO... These relics are only marginally better, like marginally marginally... Sure, it's a small step-up from Endwalker, but it's still a massive step down from Bozjan relics which made better use of the one-time steps... Also step 2... You mean roulettes? Which people are doing anyway for their tomes? Yep, great design.

"We finally have..." -- How far have our standards fallen exactly?

[Deejudanne]

it has glowy weapons to offer at the end, and most people here make the first relic step out to be the worst thing they ever did even tho if you just do it for like an hour or two each evening (not even in OC) you can have the relic together by the end of the week, its not that hard and the second step is also done pretty fast so i seriously dont know why people complain about it here we finally have a piece of casual content thats not done in 2 hours and thats also wrong

people complaining about grinding in an mmorpg will never not be funny to me

[TheRealMadruck]

people complaining about grinding in an mmorpg will never not be funny to me

This has nothing to do with people complaining about grinding in an MMO. As I stated when I first made this post, I have completed every Bozja Relic, 85% of the Heavensward Relics, and three Zodiac Brave weapons—so I certainly know what it means to grind!

Any version of a grind that relies on pure RNG rather than progression is lazy design. Instead of giving players a clear goal to achieve, developers who create grinds like this are essentially saying, "We can't come up with a meaningful step for this stage of progression, so let’s just put a slot machine into the grind because we care more about subscription numbers than the quality of content because the RNG will keep players playing to get this done."

So please, stop defending Square Enix on this. If you think putting slot-machine-style progression into an MMO is good design, then, with all due respect, I feel you are lost. Even in FF11, which had a lot of RNG, the Job weapons and armor relied on a deterministic progression system where you acquired currency to unlock your gear. You had a clear, direct way to gauge your progress.

In FF14, both Atma grinds offer no such thing; they are based on pure gambling. If it were another light grind, for example, would I be saying, "Oh yeah, this is the best ever"? No, of course not. Yet, I would be ten times less vocal because you would actually know where you stand! That is the difference between pure developer laziness and competent design.

[Kaurhz]

people complaining about grinding in an mmorpg will never not be funny to me

People thinking this is an MMO because it's given us an 8-hour grind in 4-months will never not be funny to me.

[theunhappypotato]

people complaining about grinding in an mmorpg will never not be funny to me

same i'm glad we finally got some content that had a shelf life of more than 2 days (except savage) and sure its mindnumbing but all the other relic grinds are mind numbing too, and its a one time only thing so i dont really see an issue here