Discussion: User Created UI Addons?

[Estellios]

Oh god I'm the lowest level of gamer What will I put on my resume now? How will I ever find a woman?

[Laraul]

WOW's default UI has steadily evolved over the years and "kept up" with addons, precisely for the reason that the developers didn't want let addons feel required. For all it's problems, UI development is the one thing that you cannot fault WOW on, because it's been getting it right since day one.

The purpose of user interface addons is to allow users to find ways of improving the UI rather than leave it up solely to the development team. Rather the development team simply would spot useful interface improvements and include them in future updates.

No one else allows this type of customization of the UI. And for one very good reason. It's a very stupid idea. What you get is a small few addons that do noticeably improve the game in some way or another. The vast majority are trivial improvements, copies and variations of other addons, or just plain bad user interface additions. Blizzard has never offered documentation, let alone any type of guidance to what makes a good interface addon.

The problem with UI customization with FFXIV is that the development team would have to spend a large amount of time developing the infrastructure to allow users to extend or replace the current UI. While presently the game does use lua for client side UI, it's not designed to be extended.

[TimonLoon]

The problem with UI customization with FFXIV is that the development team would have to spend a large amount of time developing the infrastructure to allow users to extend or replace the current UI. While presently the game does use lua for client side UI, it's not designed to be extended.

That would be why they're completely remaking the UI and server structure... Hello? 2.0?

Also, the new UI is made using Scaleform which is also used in RIFT iirc.

[Promethevs]

It's a very stupid idea. What you get is a small few addons that do noticeably improve the game in some way or another. The vast majority are trivial improvements, copies and variations of other addons, or just plain bad user interface additions.

I don't understand how you're justifying that crowd-sourcing UI design is a "very stupid idea." Even if the vast majority of addons are trivial or bad, it's the good ones that are popular, and there's nothing stupid about improving your user interface beyond what your dev team finds worthwhile devoting resources to. Bad ones don't get used, and come at no cost beyond the developer's time input. There's a reason why WoW has such a high reputation when it comes to user interface (because it's extremely flexible and personalizable, and people like that).

Customization through "trivial" addons is also never a bad thing - logging in to play on an aesthetically pleasing UI still improves the gaming experience over playing with an ugly UI with the same functionality.

As for whether the devs think they have enough time to set up a system for customization and find that worthwhile... well, that's up to them. I wouldn't be calling them "very stupid" if they undertook such a project, though.

[Wolfie]

So you guys think it's okay to build and use a mod that turns everything in to wire frame so you can see through walls while running a dungeon?

It's against the TOS, so no. If it weren't against the TOS, then I would have no say in the matter. My only problem would be convincing the devs to make it against the TOS, not for the players to stop using it. Regardless, this is a dumb f**king strawman argument, because there hasn't been a single developer in the history of everything that has given API to users that allowed them to strip the textures off their meshes.

Or you think it's okay to build a mod that immediately identifies a Boss's Elemental and Damage type Weaknesses?

Yes, because it's doable by reading a guide first or asking someone else.

Or you think it's okay to build a mod that calculates NM spawn times/locations?

Yes, because you can ask someone else or do the calculations yourself.

Or you think it's okay to build a mod that Auto-crafts?

Debatable, depends on what the devs' rules are about auto-craft mods. It's allowed in WOW, and they eventually integrated auto-craft mods and superior crafting UIs back into the game's default features. If it's allowed in FFXIV, then yes, it's okay.

Or you think it's okay to build a mod that Auto-gathers?

See above.

Or Auto-farms?

See above.

It's bad enough that Quest Tracker has become mainstream and all MMOs now imediately point you to the location of your objective. You want the game to play itself for you too?

See above.

What's the point of playing a game if all your going to do is modify it to make it easier? Don't try to pretend you wont. Moders are Moders and they all do the same thing.

Modding simply re-shuffles the information on your screen to make it more accessible. There is literally nothing that modding automates for you that you cannot do with the default game, unless it's against the TOS, the devs are majorly slacking on updating the default UI, or both.

"I'll just add this quest tracker.

We have that now.

Hmm.. maybe I'll get this enmity meter too.

We have that now.

Oh look this Mod will let me automate a series of attacks, that will be convenient.

We have tat now.

Hmm I haven't been able to get through that maze.. Mayb ei'll just grab this wire frame mod too.."

You have maps, who needs "wire frames"?

It's pathetic.

Play the Friggin game.

You are wrong, and you are a petulant baby.

[Wolfie]

If your entire argument against mods is that someone, somewhere might make a mod that goes against the TOS, then you are inherently wrong and dumb; and you deserve neither protection from cheaters nor a good UI.

[Kiote]

If your entire argument against mods is that someone, somewhere might make a mod that goes against the TOS, then you are inherently wrong and dumb; and you deserve neither protection from cheaters nor a good UI.

Giving the Community just part of the Code is more than they need. Players already reverse engineer the code. Giving them permission to do it will only make it easier. SE can make as many thing as they want against the ToS, but that will not stop people from using this Inch to take a Mile. It will only serve to make everything else more rampant.

[Wolfie]

Giving the Community just part of the Code is more than they need. Players already reverse engineer the code. Giving them permission to do it will only make it easier. SE can make as many thing as they want against the ToS, but that will not stop people from using this Inch to take a Mile. It will only serve to make everything else more rampant.

Let me guess, you have no prior experience to development work. Does that sound about right?

[Promethevs]

Debatable, depends on what the devs' rules are about auto-craft mods. It's allowed in WOW, and they eventually integrated auto-craft mods and superior crafting UIs back into the game's default features. If it's allowed in FFXIV, then yes, it's okay.

WoW only allows batch processing of crafting because crafting is marginalized in the game as a trivial exercise that is not part of "core gameplay."

If WoW had a system of crafting like FFXIV's, where direct user input determines performance, automation would not be allowed. WoW's system actually very strongly prevents automation of "performance actions" through addons, and they maintain a system where every character action in combat requires 1 button push, and each combination of button+modifiers (sh-alt-ctrl) is unique -- in other words, you cannot queue actions in a macro, and you cannot use macros along with conditional expressions to choose for you what spell comes out of your button press. The only way to automate in WoW is to use third-party programs that run outside of the scope of the client, which gets you banned if you're found out.

I'd advocate that as far as addons go, this is a pretty good system to follow. It ensures that the player has to make the decision at every decision point, and has to act for every action.

[Kiote]

Let me guess, you have no prior experience to development work. Does that sound about right?

I'm one of the very few people on these forums who actually work in this Industry. I'm sorry, but this is one subject you cannot give a community the benefit of the doubt on. Every MMO that has ever had Mods has had Cheat mods. That is just the way people work. They make things as easy as possible instead of playing the game as intended.

You cannot give the community the ability to Add features to a game and not expect them to Cheat.