Discussion: User Created UI Addons?

[Ladon]

I'm under the opinion that add-on customization needs to be restricted to aesthetics only. If they need to open up an entire scripting API to allow for user add-ons then they aren't doing their job correctly. These games should be providing the information feedback players need to play the game through the graphic engine, not through the UI overlay.

[Wolfie]

I'm under the opinion that add-on customization needs to be restricted to aesthetics only. If they need to open up an entire scripting API to allow for user add-ons then they aren't doing their job correctly. These games should be providing the information feedback players need to play the game through the graphic engine, not through the UI overlay.

That's a noble goal, but I quite frankly don't think it's feasible to provide that kind of instant feedback to someone without the use of numbers and other UI elements.

[Ladon]

That's a noble goal, but I quite frankly don't think it's feasible to provide that kind of instant feedback to someone without the use of numbers and other UI elements.

There will be some obvious need for some UI overlay because of the genre but we shouldn't need things like RaidUI or stuff like auto-healing scripting mods. Content needs to be crafted with the capabilities of the default UI in mind. This also in turn sets the requirement that a UI be standardized. If they want to do something that the current UI can't handle well then a UI update needs to be part of the content release.

The high customization abilities of the WoW UI really needs to be looked at as model of failure, not success to be emulated. Opening your UI to allow scripted mods just opens up way too much possibility of abuse and many MMOs that have come along after WoW have realized this and have elected to lock down their UI while maintaining a reasonable amount of customization of the UI within the game to satisfy most players.

[Wolfie]

There will be some obvious need for some UI overlay because of the genre but we shouldn't need things like RaidUI or stuff like auto-healing scripting mods. Content needs to be crafted with the capabilities of the default UI in mind. This also in turn sets the requirement that a UI be standardized. If they want to do something that the current UI can't handle well then a UI update needs to be part of the content release.

The high customization abilities of the WoW UI really needs to be looked at as model of failure, not success to be emulated. Opening your UI to allow scripted mods just opens up way too much possibility of abuse and many MMOs that have come along after WoW have realized this and have elected to lock down their UI while maintaining a reasonable amount of customization of the UI within the game to satisfy most players.

I understand and agree with your sentiment that addon automation can be dangerous, but you are wrong in your assertion that WOW is an example of failure. In fact, WOW is the shining example of customization gone right.

The WOW developers have constantly kept an eye on addons. Addons that provided automation that was not replicable through the default UI were quickly stamped out; or they were integrated into the default UI in short order and TOSes were updated. The same for popular UI addons that didn't provide automation, like threat meters, floating combat text, raid warnings, or quest help.

WOW's default UI has steadily evolved over the years and "kept up" with addons, precisely for the reason that the developers didn't want let addons feel required. For all it's problems, UI development is the one thing that you cannot fault WOW on, because it's been getting it right since day one.

[Laraul]

WOW's default UI has steadily evolved over the years and "kept up" with addons, precisely for the reason that the developers didn't want let addons feel required. For all it's problems, UI development is the one thing that you cannot fault WOW on, because it's been getting it right since day one.

The purpose of user interface addons is to allow users to find ways of improving the UI rather than leave it up solely to the development team. Rather the development team simply would spot useful interface improvements and include them in future updates.

No one else allows this type of customization of the UI. And for one very good reason. It's a very stupid idea. What you get is a small few addons that do noticeably improve the game in some way or another. The vast majority are trivial improvements, copies and variations of other addons, or just plain bad user interface additions. Blizzard has never offered documentation, let alone any type of guidance to what makes a good interface addon.

The problem with UI customization with FFXIV is that the development team would have to spend a large amount of time developing the infrastructure to allow users to extend or replace the current UI. While presently the game does use lua for client side UI, it's not designed to be extended.

[TimonLoon]

The problem with UI customization with FFXIV is that the development team would have to spend a large amount of time developing the infrastructure to allow users to extend or replace the current UI. While presently the game does use lua for client side UI, it's not designed to be extended.

That would be why they're completely remaking the UI and server structure... Hello? 2.0?

Also, the new UI is made using Scaleform which is also used in RIFT iirc.

[Hulan]

Also, the new UI is made using Scaleform which is also used in RIFT iirc.

Is this confirmed? Or rather, can you link a source for this? If so, I am officially extremely excited. Scaleform is a substantially slower than Lua, but for UI development I'd much rather work in Flash than in Lua. Not to mention that as an API architecture, it's a much simpler environment to work in.

[Promethevs]

It's a very stupid idea. What you get is a small few addons that do noticeably improve the game in some way or another. The vast majority are trivial improvements, copies and variations of other addons, or just plain bad user interface additions.

I don't understand how you're justifying that crowd-sourcing UI design is a "very stupid idea." Even if the vast majority of addons are trivial or bad, it's the good ones that are popular, and there's nothing stupid about improving your user interface beyond what your dev team finds worthwhile devoting resources to. Bad ones don't get used, and come at no cost beyond the developer's time input. There's a reason why WoW has such a high reputation when it comes to user interface (because it's extremely flexible and personalizable, and people like that).

Customization through "trivial" addons is also never a bad thing - logging in to play on an aesthetically pleasing UI still improves the gaming experience over playing with an ugly UI with the same functionality.

As for whether the devs think they have enough time to set up a system for customization and find that worthwhile... well, that's up to them. I wouldn't be calling them "very stupid" if they undertook such a project, though.

[Laraul]

I don't understand how you're justifying that crowd-sourcing UI design is a "very stupid idea." Even if the vast majority of addons are trivial or bad, it's the good ones that are popular, and there's nothing stupid about improving your user interface beyond what your dev team finds worthwhile devoting resources to. Bad ones don't get used, and come at no cost beyond the developer's time input. There's a reason why WoW has such a high reputation when it comes to user interface (because it's extremely flexible and personalizable, and people like that).

WoW has a reputation for user interface customizability, not a high reputation for it's actual user interface. And plenty of people play WoW with out user interface addons. And even among Blizzard's titles, what other games allow you access to UI APIs for standard customization? Why is D3 lacking a way to allow the same interface customization that WoW does? Hmmm?

What people want in a UI are three things...

• Effecient to use and work with
• Easy to learn (intuitive)
• More Satisfying to use

If an interface does well with all three of these, you quickly find that people don't bother to personalize it because they see no need. But when one or two of these are lacking, well that's when you start seeing people demand "I wanna customize my interface with all this stuff that sounds real cool if I don't think about it."

[fusional]

The high customization abilities of the WoW UI really needs to be looked at as model of failure, not success to be emulated. Opening your UI to allow scripted mods just opens up way too much possibility of abuse...

first: you're crazy if you think it was a failure. that's the direct opposite of reality. 9-12 million people using thousands and thousands of addons successfully- some of which being so popular that blizzard eventually adopts their functionality into its default UI... is a failure?

second: seriously out of the 9-12 million subs WoW has had over the last few years, can you show me some documented cases of people "abusing" addons in ways that violate ToS? or are you just pulling this completely out of your ass and making wild assumptions? because i'm leaning toward that.

third: those "many" mmos that have come along after WoW and elected to lock down their UIs- how have they fared, exactly? oh, right. they failed, or are failing. mmodata.net, bud. read it and weep.

i seriously don't know what the hell you're smoking, but you are clearly high.