Discussion: User Created UI Addons?

[Promethevs]

You're really reaching as far as logic goes.

I want to see WoW players kill garuda without any addon.

This has already been done 100x over, i assure you... If you'd like to feel extra silly, look at fusional, who was in the world first kill at that, and clearly played WoW through WotLK. The same qualities serve you well in both games - knowing how to predict, read & respond to encounter mechanics, knowing how to optimize your stats and ability usage, knowing how to optimize your position for highest action/inaction ratio, and knowing how to communicate. These are the pillars of raiding that won't change no matter what game you're playing.

you define quality with having lots of tool gadgets and numbers to look on? XD
that you dont have any addons now doesnt mean, that WoW has a better "quality" because it's game design is built on user created addons.... how stupid is that logic.

You should actually read the whole sentence before replying - addons have nothing to do with quality of battle mechanics. Server lag essentially limits the speed at which the battlefield can change with things like damaging ground effects & area spells, boss repositioning, etc. At the same time there's a rich variety of battle mechanics that you don't see in this game yet - player centered area damage effects, bombs that need to be dispelled or healed off a target, prisons you have to break players out of, enemy heals & spells requiring interruption, player-controlled destructible environment, vehicles, split-front battles, the list goes on.

And as for your stance about good players having absolutely no need of addons, I've seen enough "good players" who've needed someone else with an addon to show them they were not doing so great to know that personal evaluation "by feeling" is far from incontrovertible. On that note, from personal experience playing MMOs for 7 years, it's a ways off the mark for the majority of people...

So how do you, as an invested member of the party who doesn't want to waste time, tell who's correctly evaluating their performance when the boss' (or any other encounter-critical monster) health is a mishmash of damage from multiple sources that you can't parse out by eye? Well, an addon that parses might be a good way... right?

[Wolfie]

Both happened, alot, Consider yourself lucky to only see a few, i did use that as an example though, You probably won't see it much but there is other players...

Having DPS meters around or not will have almost no effect on people being d**ks to each other. It happened plenty of times in FFXI, because you can figure out right away if a player isn't pulling their weight. The term "gimp" was thrown around a lot, if I recall correctly.

It's simply not something that is common in pick up groups in WOW. There are penalties for kicking players. The fact that it happens to extremely few people on very rare occasions is not enough of a reason to block addon development.

[Hulan]

Also, the new UI is made using Scaleform which is also used in RIFT iirc.

Is this confirmed? Or rather, can you link a source for this? If so, I am officially extremely excited. Scaleform is a substantially slower than Lua, but for UI development I'd much rather work in Flash than in Lua. Not to mention that as an API architecture, it's a much simpler environment to work in.

[Reiterpallasch]

What Ptolemy said has to be one of the dumber things I've read in this thread, 2nd only to everything Tonkra writes.

The only way I've ever seen someone be kicked due to low dps, was when they were doing exceptionally lower than what they should be able to do, and even then it was only in raiding situations. Nobody gives a fuck what damage you do in dungeons, unless it's clear you're afk and not really contributing anything.

If you take 2 similar players of equal ilvl/gear, one is pulling 40k+ dps and the other is doing 15k, then clearly it's an issue of the player being terrible. That type of player will get replaced quickly if they don't improve.

If some baddie has their bad badness exposed due to a parser, that's a good thing, not bad. They now know that A: they're bad and need to improve, or B: their bad self is getting kicked. And kicking a bad player from your party for a good player is never a bad thing. Well, unless you hate progression and like to carry dead weight anyways. In which case you're probably bad and should feel bad for being so bad.

[Wolfie]

It's some mythical scenario that's rarely, if ever, happened, where an underperforming player gets kicked out of a group that isn't having problems with the content.

People get kicked when the party can't progress and their performance is the one thing that's holding back the group. Nobody in their right mind would hold the group up, while it's clearing content without issue, just to kick someone that isn't doing as well as the other players.

[Laughlyn]

you define quality with having lots of tool gadgets and numbers to look on? XD
that you dont have any addons now doesnt mean, that WoW has a better "quality" because it's game design is built on user created addons.... how stupid is that logic.

guys, you seriously played WoW for too long...
different game, different playstyle. leave it that way.

You obviously completly missunderstood that regarding me saying "Quality".
I do appologize for possibly using a wrongful term.

That was not related in any way to Addons, i was calling the Battle Mechanics quality of both FFXI & WoW.

Meaning terms of defeating a boss, kiting. stop dps'ing at X amount of time, keep
track of raging timers, hp left on mob for insane mob ws on pt etc.

There is no way at present you can compare these battle mechanics to either FFXI,
WoW or any other simmilar MMO's having these more adavanced fights.

played WoW for fdar too long what a bullshit argument,
imo and hardcore players thats called experience.
Not limitating yourself to being stuck to one choice only.

Trust me, 30 years of gaming experience, including a handful of mmo's such as
FFXI, Rift, WoW, FFXIV, SW ToR...and all you see is me playing WoW because
its your little hate focus-point isnt it...now thats sad considering you dont know anything about me.
You wanna go personal with me,...go ahead.

Skill....lol, i favor personality & friends over skill.
Thats what makes a great game experience, but if addons even if it means parser,
UI themes or any other cool feature that will further enhance this gaming experience, hell im game.

Shocker isnt it, welcome to the world of diffrences.

God knows why i asked for a god damn Mailbox 2 years ago?

WoW hater.., maybe its time to grow up & stop being silly...this WoW haters...it's getting old.

There's a damn good reason that game owned any other mmo for as long as it did.
But even so, that didnt stop me from enjoying both games.

[Rokien]

FFXI UI! LOVE IT, soo want.

[Laughlyn]

FFXI UI! LOVE IT, soo want.

was wondering when you would show up lol.

[Ixmo]

This is all in regards to damage meters.

i am able to see for example that there is better equipment on the market available than artifact stuff or what the heck ever..i dont need a parser for that..

it goes like this: better equipment -> the more damage you do. i dont know if you experience this, too.

It’s instantly shown in this example that you do not understand the real reason that parsers/damage meters are created. Having better equipment essentially DOES mean you will do more damage, HOWEVER, if you don’t perform your rotation and positioning correctly then you’ll be doing less damage than a character of the same class/job who has lesser gear and stats than you do.

There have been so many instances where I've been in much lower ilevel gear and come first on damage meters, against people in heroic raiding gear. When I came top I wasn't thinking ‘omgz check out my dps my e-peen is so huge I just beat everyone with gear so much higher than me’, I was simply proud at the fact that despite having lower gear than everyone else (including other members who were the same class as me), I was able to overcome them in damage whilst being able to position and manoeuvre myself out of harm’s way. This is also help from damage meters from a lot of rotation practise in my spare time, figuring out what works and what doesn’t.

seriously it makes me sick after years to read "ya in WoW my fat d*ck-o-meter was so great etc."

I don’t recall there ever being a time that I was on WoW and someone shoved their damage meters in my face, followed by a taunt at how amazing they are, and if it has happened then it's such a rare occasion that I actually forgot about it. If this has actually happened to you, then I’m sorry that you had to group with someone who was being ridiculously immature. You won’t find these types of people only on WoW though, but any game, including FFXIV, and if it’s not about damage meters then it will be about something else.

Realistically speaking, the only time I can see that happening is through a pickup group to a raid. When you’re levelling up, nobody is bothered by your damage output, it’s not important. Damage meters are there for endgame content.

when you think WoW is so great with stuffs like these.. then go play it... and seriously do you want that kind of community that you have in WoW?

I don’t want to play World of Warcraft. It’s literally that simple. When you say things like this it only makes you look foolish. Because we’re trying to incorporate what is known as the standard for present MMO’s, it instantly means we want to play the game that already has that? I want to play Final Fantasy XIV, but I also would like features implemented that actually work in an MMO. When it’s said that WoW is so great with these kinds of features, it doesn’t mean we’re trying to make World of Final Fantasy, it means we want to implement a simple addon to let us determine and maximise efficiency for our guilds/grand companies.

It seems to be improving in a game is about how you play it, rather then what gear you have. Like I said this is my experience in wow. Improving = getting better gear = judged via dps meters. People post the top 1-10+ and they say, if you aren't on this list you need to leave the party. It's really obnoxious.

That is very exaggerated. If people were to post the first 1-10 of players, it would indicate a 25 man raid, which usually means 15 damage characters, and even then, someone has to come 15th on damage, even if almost everybody has near equal damage comparison. What would actually be a realistic situation is wiping in a raid, followed by someone posting the damage meters into chat. After a quick look, you can see that (in this example of course) 5 people are below the tanks in damage. It's that situation that you are talking about, and it's in no way obnoxious because it's outrageous for a damaging class to be doing lower damage than a tank. Nobody wants to be wiping all night.

You are the type of person who plays World of Warcraft without damage meters and then doesn’t understand why people kick you from a raid. It’s perfectly fine when you’re levelling up as it’s not important, but as soon as it comes to endgame, people want to win. People want to down content and clear bosses, and if you’re in a pickup group and are not pumping out sufficient damage then it’s entirely your own fault for letting the group down, not damage meters. Damage meters are just a clear indication of what you are doing. This doesn’t go to say that they’re needed by everyone though, as a basic understanding of skill priorities, rotation and statistics negates the need and makes using them optional.

I’m sorry but you cannot base a bad experience on WoW and blame it on an addon, when it was you yourself not being able to lift your weight. As much as you want to play purely for fun, bringing horrible damage to a difficult group challenge will only frustrate other people, making the experience unpleasant for the others. Try some easier content next time.

things that mods/addons do is that it is forcing people to actually install that "shit" if they dont want to have disadvantages against those who use it. and thats a terrible idea in my opinion.

Could you provide us with an example of a mandatory addon to install on World of Warcraft? Addons for MMO’s are completely optional and the developers have the TOS to stop addons running the game for you. Whereas most people do enjoy the use of addons, I do know one person who played WoW without any addons, and he was the Main Tank in a high end raiding guild. Looking at the top 10 addons for WoW, Deadly Boss Mods is the ONLY addon that comes close to your description, and even then, DBM is not ‘cheating’, it simply tells you of what is already in the game and follows that up with warnings. It’s optional. If you don’t want to have warnings of abilities then don’t, but don’t drag down the top end hardcore gamers who want these types of addons because in your ‘opinion’ you disapprove.

now then we have boss fights were everybody says "do not get 10 metre near the boss, otherwise you will get hit by an aeo attack" ... for me it is like making it far easier, in this case you cheat the game design, thats a fact.. because in the original version it is not visible to your character.

This is NOT cheating. I don’t know how you can play a community game and not expect someone who has experience in the fights to tell you what’s going to happen. Nobody wants to wipe. You’re saying that you’d rather not have anybody tell you what the enemy does, so you can die and learn yourself? You’re playing a none-existent type of community game then. It’s understandable if the entire party has no idea and you all suffer from the same cause of damage, but it is not cheating for someone to give you tips on an encounter, ergo Deadly Boss Mods.

Especially if you were not paying attention to the fight grabbed hate and whiped the party. Heavy DPS classes can do that easily. BLM's can grab hate in 2-3 casts. So it's tiem to back off.

This is true, which is why it’s important to also have forms of threat meters too. What some people don’t seem to understand is that the intention of damage meters is not to ‘rush to #1 and be amazing, not caring if you’re standing in a fire or pulling hate’ but to be the most efficient you can in terms of maximum damage output whilst also maintaining a low-ish amount of hate generation.

Other MMO battle system don't have such an easy hate grabbing ability.

Back in vanilla WoW the hate generation of DPS characters was incredibly high, you had to wait around 10 seconds for a tank to get enough threat on a boss before anyone could start damaging, unless you were a class that was able to redirect hate through damage. At the same time, damage meters still existed and were still put to use from top end guilds.

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There are a lot of viable reasons why damage meters exist and why they are so useful. You are entitled to your own opinion, but don’t shove your own false information down other people’s throats because you choose to live a life of ignorance.

[HiirNoivl]

Um, I would like to see Linkshell related addons. o.o/

I would particularly like a calendar of events and Linkshell news, if that's not already part of the game client. I feel like Linkshells should be run from the game itself and not from a website (though websites can still be useful.)