Discussion: User Created UI Addons?

[Ladon]

The point I was trying to make was that you could do what HealBot did with the default UI and in-game tools that were given to you.

The fact that some things were automated by the API does not mean anything. Generally things that were automated via API calls were already marginalized, unwanted, or unimportant parts of gameplay, like automatically retrieving all your mail, auto-replying to tells when in combat, etc. That is a conscious decision that the developers make.

I'm still not sure what you are saying. I'm not taking about anything being automated by the API. I'm talking about using the API to create automation. For example if you allow your API to see player health which has plenty of legitimate uses, then allow your scripting language to perform conditionals/iteratives/comparisons which again has legitimate uses then allow for execution of commands, none of these three in themselves are automation or arguably malicious.

But when you put the three together, then you start running into problems. Give the user the three controls above in FF14 and you can make a White Mage play itself other than executing the macro similar to what HealBot does in WoW.

This is the kind of risk you run by opening your interface up. The more information and controls you expose the higher the risk that people will just further automate tasks in the game to the point that they are just running complex scripts rather than playing the game. Sure you can just argue that good people won't use them but that really doesn't solve the problem.

[Wolfie]

I'm still not sure what you are saying. I'm not taking about anything being automated by the API. I'm talking about using the API to create automation. For example if you allow your API to see player health which has plenty of legitimate uses, then allow your scripting language to perform conditionals/iteratives/comparisons which again has legitimate uses then allow for execution of commands, none of these three in themselves are automation or arguably malicious.

But when you put the three together, then you start running into problems. Give the user the three controls above in FF14 and you can make a White Mage play itself other than executing the macro similar to what HealBot does in WoW.

This is the kind of risk you run by opening your interface up. The more information and controls you expose the higher the risk that people will just further automate tasks in the game to the point that they are just running complex scripts rather than playing the game. Sure you can just argue that good people won't use them but that really doesn't solve the problem.

http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API

Here, read through that and why such things can be restricted via PROTECTED and NOCOMBAT classes.

Decursive has, or had, an option to auto-heal you, but only while out of combat.

[Wolfie]

OnClick and OnHover events create a target object that is passed around to the other function, dude.

You are talking out of your ass.

[Ladon]

OnClick and OnHover events create a target object that is passed around to the other function, dude.

You are talking out of your ass.

Yeah an object, not a function "dude". NOCOMBAT is a FUNCTION restriction, not an OBJECT restriction.

[Wolfie]

Yeah an object, not a function "dude". NOCOMBAT is a FUNCTION restriction, not an OBJECT restriction.

Objects are created with multiple functions. NOCOMBAT restrictions can restrict which of these functions can be used in combat (i.e. the ones that don't require any player input).

Click or hover events require player input.

Please, please stop talking, because you are out of your element.

[Ladon]

Objects are created with multiple functions. NOCOMBAT restrictions can restrict which of these functions can be used in combat (i.e. the ones that don't require any player input).

Click or hover events require player input.

Please, please stop talking, because you are out of your element.

Sorry man you already tried to use that one on someone else. You are wrong in this case though.

Yes you can create objects within functions by calling on them which in turn the function can return that object if that is it's function.

NOCOMBAT is a function call restriction, it does not prevent you from passing a returned object, or variable when calling another function. All it does is prevent you from calling that function in order to pass in an object in order to get the return.

So in your case, since the OnHover or OnClick function can be called in combat then you can get the target returned during combat. You can then pass in that object to any other function that is not restricted by NOCOMBAT if you are in combat. So unless GetPlayerHP() is NOCOMBAT restricted then there is no reason you can't get the HP returned by passing in your already acquired target object. And then from there you can pass your HP value into a Lua script, have the script spit out a command object then pass that to CastAbility(). Again all functions that aren't restricted by NOCOMBAT.

It seems like you are under the impression that you can somehow strip out an object or variable. This isn't possible as long as you can call the function and get the return.

[Wolfie]

Sorry man you already tried to use that one on someone else. You are wrong in this case though.

Yes you can create objects within functions by calling on them which in turn the function can return that object if that is it's function.

NOCOMBAT is a function call restriction, it does not prevent you from passing a returned object, or variable when calling another function. All it does is prevent you from calling that function in order to pass in an object in order to get the return.

So in your case, since the OnHover or OnClick function can be called in combat then you can get the target returned during combat. You can then pass in that object to any other function that is not restricted by NOCOMBAT if you are in combat. So unless GetPlayerHP() is NOCOMBAT restricted then there is no reason you can't get the HP returned by passing in your already acquired target object. And then from there you can pass your HP value into a Lua script, have the script spit out a command object then pass that to CastAbility(). Again all functions that aren't restricted by NOCOMBAT.

It seems like you are under the impression that you can somehow strip out an object or variable. This isn't possible as long as you can call the function and get the return.

If the function for creating that object has the NOCOMBAT restriction, then you will not have that object to pass it.

If you think creating a target without player input is possible, then you're wrong. Creating a target object would require a function which is restricted from combat use. OnHover and OnClick events do require player input, and are therefore not restricted from in-combat use.

Moreover, WOW has protected classes and 'tainting', which makes your example of LUA comparisons moot, because action calls refuse to run if scripts are ran or it receives any data from a tainted source. It is for this reason that HealBot does not have conditional statements in it, such as canceling a heal action of the target's HP is too low/high.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Secure_Execution_and_Tainting

[Wolfie]

And before you ask me why that's relevant, it's because I can create a Whack-a-mole board with in-game macros and raid frames, because macros implement OnHover events in the form of mouseover targets.

[Great-Saladin]

gear changer
a longer macro for gear swap

[Laughlyn]

Okay guys chill the freakin funk out!

No need to go raging over 2 addons.

Im amazed by the obsession over just these 2 things, last discussion on here been more
or less the same thing over & over again with no real new conclusion.

Limitating yourself by not trying to improve yourself is like saying..
"but i dont want to reach max level, i wanna stay level 30 rest of my FFXIV 2.0 experience."
(That was an example....)
Even if thats the case then i dont see why that person left FFXI / WoW in the first place.

Here's a simple solution, dont want to use em?...Then Dont.
I certainly wont blame you for not using any addon.

Any hardcore player / LS wanna use addons, go ahead...
and if its more or less required for joining an LS,....well do so or dont join.

There will always be competition wether its casual or hardcore.

Just like the diffrences between people around the world not to
mention everyones entitlement to their opinion.

Either way, Addons...its just not an reality yet, it may...or may never be.

There's really no need to go all personal for things you dont like, everyone is diffrent.com
And if anyone cant accept that...well sh!t, then you really, Really got to get out of that
deep black hole and experience the world beyond it.

I just like to add one final point... (wich i completly forgot or lost somewhere now btw... >.<)
I might have made a huge mistake by making this thread or not but idc,
i like reading what other ppl think of this.

Anywayz, i've seen countless threads & posts over the past 2 years asking for completly
useless feature or ingame items, they do nothing but add a few seconds of fun & excitement,
such as maybe the goobbue mount (even thou i think its cool) it dosent actually go faster
than our regular chocobo...so why do some people want more or diffrent mounts for example?

Because its a personal option you are given, and also for fun ofc.
The same thing can be said about every single aspect of any rpg / mmo these days.

Just imagine FFXIV like this...
1 Class, 1 skill/Spell, 1 city, 1 mount, 1 type of tree outside, 1 npc saying the same crap
over & over again every single freakin day you play it...
yeah dull as hell & no one would play that garbage, why?

No vareity or new cool things, its the same principle... however with minor diffrences.

MMO's are suppose to evolve, this isnt some sort of offline game where there's no DLC.
This isnt the 1980s, where ingame bugs couldnt be fixed by patches & stuff.
And addons / mods...well...its old, its nothing new but atleast it improves things...
or...it can completly ruin the game.

However, its about control, can SE control this, if it becomes available?

- end of rant.