Discussion: User Created UI Addons?

**Asiaine** · 08-28-2012 01:32 PM

Wow, lots of different discussions going on in this thread.

-- Parsers: They are good if you are interested in game mechanics/formulas. They are good to unveil the hidden meaning and impact of stats and skills. Since we are not told what the formula is, and the observed results are random, only a parser can tell us what the secret formula is.

-- Number Crunching: It can be interesting or even fun to optimize for numbers. However, do we want a game where that is necessary? So far, every Final Fantasy game I played did not care if I optimized for equipment/skills/whatever. I would either win or loose. If I loose, get something better. If I win, then I'm good enough to carry on to the next adventure. FF is not a combat simulator. It's a story telling game where children save the world from evil do-ers.

Now back to topic!

-- User Created UI: If a new UI package appears that a subset of the community deem ultra important and ultra necessary to the point that they will not party with others that do not have it installed then this has a negative impact to those who do not want to use that package. You can see this now with voice-chat. It's pretty much mainstream and many people will prefer not to party (or will refuse to) with others who do not have that voice-chat software. The same MAY become with other addons. For example, ones that show % of health and distance, where strategy says: Stand exactly 12 yalms from target and attack until 63%. (We are almost there now with Garuda and Raven).

But if you dig into those arguments above you can see the real underlying issue:
It is not the tools that we create, or the desire to have optimized equipment that matters. It is the world that SE creates. If they create a world where we NEED to know how to optimize our equipment to succeed, or we NEED add-on tools in order to finish an adventure then people will naturally go in that direction.

If however, SE creates a world where knowing the formulas or optimizing gear are 'nice' but hardly 'necessary', and the benefit of add-on tools are purely cosmetic without any gameplay impact then the need for those will be diminished.

So, Yoshi, what kind of world will you create for us? Where focus is on adventuring and storytelling with only a minor emphasis on equipment, or one where the parser and numbers shall rule us all?

**Reiterpallasch** · 08-28-2012 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Asiaine

-- Number Crunching: It can be interesting or even fun to optimize for numbers. However, do we want a game where that is necessary? So far, every Final Fantasy game I played did not care if I optimized for equipment/skills/whatever. I would either win or loose. If I loose, get something better. If I win, then I'm good enough to carry on to the next adventure. FF is not a combat simulator. It's a story telling game where children save the world from evil do-ers.

That's essentially saying that the game does care for optimized gear/skill/etc. If you can't win, then you need to improve until you can. Obviously, better gear should equal better performance. If it doesn't, then it's a player issue. The issue is that most people can't distinguish between a bad player or bad gear based on the numbers alone. I myself would much rather group with a good player who has bad gear, than a bad player that has good gear. The good player will eventually become great, but the bad one will still just be bad.

I'd certainly hope people want a game where it's necessary to optimize for numbers, otherwise you'd be able to wear anything to kill anything, completely negating the need to ever progress in the game. Lots of games follow "Kill mob > get gear > kill harder mob > get better gear > kill hardest mob > get best gear", and MMOs are typically not all that different.

**Asiaine** · 08-28-2012 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

That's essentially saying that the game does care for optimized gear/skill/etc. ..

Please note: Better does not mean optimized.
Upgrading from level 40 sword to level 50 sword is better.
Upgrading sword to the best possible sword for that slot in order to take advantange of maximing each stat is 'optmizing'.

So far, Final Fantasy has only cared: Do you have a decent enough sword for this area.
It has not said: You have to have the best gear in order to finish this quest.

**Xairos** · 08-28-2012 04:20 PM

Imma let you finish, but..

You all are kinda missing the forest for the trees.

FFXIV's battle isn't like WoW's. So dmg meters will inherently work differently. I mean, from my knowledge, WoW ??k dps output relied marginally on gear and highly on rotation (the order of your skills). In FFXI(V) it was from a number of things: gear equipped at time of white/skill execution; buffs from food/spells/subjobs; and, in slightest detail, weather. So how accurate can our meters be if people are gear swapping in the middle of fights?

Me: "Hey man your numbers were kinda low"
Guy: "Oh my gear swap macro wasn't working. I messed up a line"
Me: "Liar! get outta my party, noob."

As someone else said in this thread, we don't know how 2.0 will even play. But we can go off of the history of FFonline games operating within those margins.

Final point: Final Fantasy has always attempted to establish itself as a different mmo when compared to the rest of the genre. That is why in a sea of Free to play, Final Fantasy maintains its subscription model. Being different is Final Fantasy's DNA. Currently SE is trying to make that "different" into "good". I urge all of you to think about how it felt (feels) to play a brand new mmo, day one, only to realize a week later that this "new mmo" is just a re-skinned WoW attempting to get both your time and your money all the while treating you like you don't know any better. It happens year after year and yet many of you would rather your new mmo (in 2012 no less) to play barely different than one that came out in 2004.

**Antipika** · 08-28-2012 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Xairos

blablabla

I don't really see how gear swapping changes anything. Gear swapping can be considered as a rotation. If you fail to gear swap properly it's like failing to rotate a spell properly or use your charge/fury properly etc. So you're still a bad player in any case.

As for WoW and such relying only on gear/rotation, it's wrong, it relies on everything

- Gear
- Spell rotation
- Positioning
- Mechanics anticipation (move at the right time etc.)
- Raid consumables (Food/Potions)
- Spec tree (could be considered like sub job in a way)

As for the F2P part, which game are we talking about? XI? Yeah well game from 2002, different market at the time, game mostly popular in Japan etc. Tons of factors that justify why the game is still ok with a pay to play model. As for XIV, we all know it's not profitable at the moment...

According to what was said in previous dev posts, they are about 300 persons working on the game in Japan. Add to that the dedicated staff in America and Europe. (our GMs, Reps and so on). Now add the total development time put into the game, we can safely say that a lot of people were working on XIV as early as 2008. XIV is not profitable with the few amount of players it has right now. And it won't be profitable if it remains that way, hence why the game is taking a new direction and try to attract more players. A wider audience even if it means becoming a bit less original.

No one wants a game like XI again. And most of us are done with the so-called Square Enix Originality©. We have seen what's XIV 1.0 was all about in term originality. Sure it was unique... uniquely terrible.

**Asiaine** · 08-28-2012 09:09 PM