Discussion: User Created UI Addons?

[Promethevs]

In the end the developers of the game would determine the extent to which players could use mods to control their characters or automate processes. If they don't want you to be able to do something, it's as simple as not coding/giving you the API functions to do it.

There is, in fact, a broad spectrum of mods that don't play for you:
customized frames/aesthetics
customized button maps
damage meters
enmity meters
bag/inventory mods
recipe book mods
encyclopedia mods, such as for gathering
chat mods

WoW itself has some classic cases of mods whose API backbones were disabled because it was determined they trivialized certain game mechanics (one mod used to draw safe zones as transparent circles on the floor). If the developers undertake UI customization I'm sure they'd understand that they have a responsibility to maintain game integrity.

[Estellios]

Oh god I'm the lowest level of gamer What will I put on my resume now? How will I ever find a woman?

[Wolfie]

If your entire argument against mods is that someone, somewhere might make a mod that goes against the TOS, then you are inherently wrong and dumb; and you deserve neither protection from cheaters nor a good UI.

[Kiote]

If your entire argument against mods is that someone, somewhere might make a mod that goes against the TOS, then you are inherently wrong and dumb; and you deserve neither protection from cheaters nor a good UI.

Giving the Community just part of the Code is more than they need. Players already reverse engineer the code. Giving them permission to do it will only make it easier. SE can make as many thing as they want against the ToS, but that will not stop people from using this Inch to take a Mile. It will only serve to make everything else more rampant.

[Wolfie]

Giving the Community just part of the Code is more than they need. Players already reverse engineer the code. Giving them permission to do it will only make it easier. SE can make as many thing as they want against the ToS, but that will not stop people from using this Inch to take a Mile. It will only serve to make everything else more rampant.

Let me guess, you have no prior experience to development work. Does that sound about right?

[Kiote]

Let me guess, you have no prior experience to development work. Does that sound about right?

I'm one of the very few people on these forums who actually work in this Industry. I'm sorry, but this is one subject you cannot give a community the benefit of the doubt on. Every MMO that has ever had Mods has had Cheat mods. That is just the way people work. They make things as easy as possible instead of playing the game as intended.

You cannot give the community the ability to Add features to a game and not expect them to Cheat.

[Promethevs]

I'm one of the very few people on these forums who actually work in this Industry. I'm sorry, but this is one subject you cannot give a community the benefit of the doubt on. Every MMO that has ever had Mods has had Cheat mods. That is just the way people work. They make things as easy as possible instead of playing the game as intended.

You cannot give the community the ability to Add features to a game and not expect them to Cheat.

Sure, you can expect people to use what you give them to the fullest extent that it is usable. The way to ensure people are not cheating is simple in concept, if more delicate in practice - you establish a concept of what you think is "acceptable play," and you design your addon API in light of this. If you find that API functions are being abused beyond this scope of acceptable practice, you patch the offending functions out. The game devs absolutely have control of what players can do with their addons in a well designed development environment.

Again, I'd say the guiding principle that WoW follows with respect to addon development is a fair one - that players actually have to make any decision, and each action has to come from a corresponding player action.

Every MMO ends up having some cheat or another pop up due to the complexity of the project. It's how long those cheats are allowed to last that makes the difference.

[Wolfie]

WoW only allows batch processing of crafting because crafting is marginalized in the game as a trivial exercise that is not part of "core gameplay."

If WoW had a system of crafting like FFXIV's, where direct user input determines performance, automation would not be allowed. WoW's system actually very strongly prevents automation of "performance actions" through addons, and they maintain a system where every character action in combat requires 1 button push, and each combination of button+modifiers (sh-alt-ctrl) is unique -- in other words, you cannot queue actions in a macro, and you cannot use macros along with conditional expressions to choose for you what spell comes out of your button press. The only way to automate in WoW is to use third-party programs that run outside of the scope of the client, which gets you banned if you're found out.

I'd advocate that as far as addons go, this is a pretty good system to follow. It ensures that the player has to make the decision at every decision point, and has to act for every action.

Hence, "debatable". You know full well that SE will not allow automating of crafting; they've already tried to stop auto-enter systems. If they decide that they want to let people auto-craft, then that is their decision and modders making auto-craft mods does not mean that they are cheating.

I'm one of the very few people on these forums who actually work in this Industry. I'm sorry, but this is one subject you cannot give a community the benefit of the doubt on. Every MMO that has ever had Mods has had Cheat mods. That is just the way people work. They make things as easy as possible instead of playing the game as intended.

You cannot give the community the ability to Add features to a game and not expect them to Cheat.

You are absolutely out of your element here and I don't believe for one second that you are part of the development industry; or you would not have said something as ignorant as having exposed API makes it easier to reverse engineer a product. These are not jigsaw puzzles, having more open API does not make it easier to reverse engineer the rest of the compiled code.

Saying that every MMO who has had mods has had cheating mods is disingenuous because every MMO has had cheating mods. Every MMO has a combination of client-server communication vulnerabilities, vulnerable configuration files that are stored client side, or simple mechanics that can be mimicked by custom automated third party tools. Every. Single. MMO.

[Tonkra]

I'm one of the very few people on these forums who actually work in this Industry. I'm sorry, but this is one subject you cannot give a community the benefit of the doubt on. Every MMO that has ever had Mods has had Cheat mods. That is just the way people work. They make things as easy as possible instead of playing the game as intended.

You cannot give the community the ability to Add features to a game and not expect them to Cheat.

thats a good point. and thats what i meant.

im ok with offline rpgs, people can mod or cheat their asses off in offline singleplayer rpgs if they want to.. nobody will ever be disturbed by that. i dont mind if they cheat the game itself.

from the developers it is NOT intended to let the players see how far they are away from a specific monster, otherwise they would have implemented things like these for their own UI (range metre as an example) why making those numbers visible for players? its like making visible the next chess stroke from the PC in a chess game... i cant seriously understand those people to make everything more easier, as it was supposed to be.. how about a UI feature where you see the cooldown of the enemies abillities? well that would be somethin?

a game where you experience the gameplay on YOUR OWN. i think you forgot what a game is supposed to be.
where are the arguments that you SHOULD be able to see unvisible informations like these? nobody from the +pro side could ever tell me (in an objective way!)

If you want XI back, what do you do in here? >>http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/ The game is still running you know.

you could also say the same thing to the wide WoW audience in here "what do you do in here?"

such an WoW arrogant behaviour in here, seriously. and you know.. WoW is also still running.

[Wolfie]

Giving the Community just part of the Code is more than they need. Players already reverse engineer the code. Giving them permission to do it will only make it easier. SE can make as many thing as they want against the ToS, but that will not stop people from using this Inch to take a Mile. It will only serve to make everything else more rampant.

Done replying to you. You're incorrigibly arrogant and won't admit you're wrong, incorrigibly dumb, or trolling me.