Thread: RDM 7.4 changes and job identity

Originally Posted by Striker44

Reductio ad absurdum is used when you know that you have no valid argument to make or can't refute the point you don't like. We're talking one melee combo that can only be used at range once every few minutes, not every melee skill ever.

Though, ironically, the answer to your question is still "correct, it would not affect my individual job fantasy" as long as the game didn't either prevent said skills from being used in melee range or make it practically impossible to do so.

For example, there are already people who don't like what they flying has "done" to the game...so they just don't fly. And they're welcome to do that. It only becomes an issue when certain parts of the land become designed to require flying that the concept fails.

Of your 4 melee combos per 2 minutes it’s now 3 that are at range, only one is still in melee range.

And if melee having no melee range restriction wouldn’t affect job identity for you then I don’t even know what you consider job identity

Originally Posted by Milkbeard

Sorry, I should have clarified: it isn't just the GCDs, it's the moves. However, if you want to go down the route of the "triple sword" combo, I’d argue you should still be in melee range to fit Corps-a-corps and Displacement into your pot window. But at that point, aren't we just arguing that Red Mage didn't actually change for high-level players?

The reason I asked for a specific fight is that, frankly, there aren't any designed for triple melee in any expansion. I’m genuinely open to an example if you find one, but we shouldn't twist things by saying, "Well, Red Mage used to be a welcome fifth to the melee crowd." When the melee players have to pick a cardinal position, it’s theirs, not a Red Mage’s, because RDM is ranged. Lets' not twist things in this identity post to try and spin it like we've lost something until evidence is provided. It wasn't gutted and people should refrain from dog piling on a job when they have been too busy maining the forums to try it out.

I see what you’re saying in your shift mainly toward talking about identity. Not gonna lie, identity is subjective and hard to discuss functionally, but I appreciate that you aren't equating a range change on the sword combo to the new-gen take of "now it plays like BLM." If you believe Red Mage should "hold its own in melee combat," you’re asking for something entirely new that has never existed in this game. I disagree with this forum 7.4 changes the range of 3 "weaponskills" during burst. Not the identity.

Nobody is asking it to “hold its own in melee” people are saying that square needs to stop designing mechanics then sacrificing identity to make the mechanics fit, this whole change was precipitated on the assumption of the genetic post ShB “a mechanic will be solved with 4 in 4 out”, instead of sacrificing RDM’s identity, just don’t make mechanics require that

Originally Posted by Milkbeard

You are replying, to my reply, to someone else sir. Read both posts if you're gonna do that because I'm not gonna spend time clarifying it for you lol. Also most of the time its not 3 whole combos covered by manaification what fights are you doing? That is for pot window buddy. Don't spin a narrative that isn't true about the rotation to fit your arguement.

I’m replying to the fact that you were asking forsaken if they “believe RDM should hold its own in melee” which is a stance neither forsaken or anyone else has taken, people are saying “stop shaving job mechanics down because your combat design team is so uncreative it forces these problems”

1 melee combo or 3 you only get 4 per 2 minutes, absolute best case scenario you have become 25% less melee, worst 75% likely to fall somewhere on the middle at 50%, that’s a massive reduction In the hybrid design of the job to deal with a problem created by the combat design

A fight shouldn’t have to be “designed” to allow RDM into melee range, fights shouldn’t be so rigid on 4 in 4 out That a good RDM can’t get in and out when they are needed now there is little reason to even try