Thread: RDM 7.4 changes and job identity

Originally Posted by Milkbeard

Stop using labels like " Hardcore raider" or "casual" like slurs.
I locked in world 2nd in damage on DSR in patch 6.2 on RDM, and my favorite content is farming mounts from previous expansions with my FC.
Some people love winning the hardest battles, while others just like collecting older mounts from primals with friends, but most frequent players actually enjoy doing both, and more! There are simply far too many progression systems now to be strictly labeling people as casual or hardcore. You have deep dungeon, field operation content, PVP, crafting, gathering, dedicated underunderzied content, limited jobs- All have active communities. None of which use raiding gear. The ultimate weapons don't even give useful stats outside of ultimate for any substantial amount of time.

It is time to think individually for yourself.
Drop the labels they're old. Just. Stop. Don't feel comfortable mimicking terms with sterotypic energy. I'm not sure, maybe its just an experienced players perspective, I just have never felt original seeing someone post something complaining about a demographic as being a reason something changed and felt good about myself, I just play the game and discuss because I love it. You. Should. Too. Source your claims if you make them. Educate yourself about a move you don't like before calling it useless. Just the base expectation behind any functional conversation, acknowledge the fundamentals so you can talk to each other with at least a mutual understanding. You can use my provided references but please join the balance. They aren't toxic please don't be afraid, the red mage lounge is full of funny memes.

This was my final message, good bye strange mostly negative thread.

i'm gonna be blunt: you sound unsufferable and keep missing the point of this thread.
None of us gives a damn about high end raiding, or if they do they understand that a thread about JOB IDENTITY VS THE NEW CHANGES is not the place for whining and crying about hardcore raiding and crunching numbers. you are literally doing a side conversation alone and calling for people to "educate themselves".

anyway i have no idea of the reception of these changes in jp, but i hope they either rollback the change or add the "positionals". it would be a nice change

I'm confused what is so "job identity breaking" about it when you're still forced to do the other melee attacks in melee range when it's not up, and did nothing to the rest of the kit. I personally like it; if I know a fight well enough I can choose to save it for when a mechanic forces me away from easy melee range.

Originally Posted by Infindox

I'm confused what is so "job identity breaking" about it when you're still forced to do the other melee attacks in melee range when it's not up, and did nothing to the rest of the kit. I personally like it; if I know a fight well enough I can choose to save it for when a mechanic forces me away from easy melee range.

I think the most major concern here is that this is just a "canary in the coal mine" type situation. Sure now the job doesn't play that much differently than how it used to (and you're still encouraged to be in melee range for burst in a group situation given corps and engagement) but it creates a bit of awkwardness in how the job plays.. and the most likely next step for the devs to take after this given this change and their past history is to just throw the entire melee combo itself out the door by making it all ranged all the time. Of course none of us KNOW it's going to happen that way, but the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour and all that.
Not to mention there's also the fact that Red Mages also had a tool in Reprise that could have served this exact purpose by becoming something like "Magicked Reprise" when under Manafication but instead of changing/updating that they instead chose to dunk on the uniqueness of the melee combo instead.

Originally Posted by Infindox

I'm confused what is so "job identity breaking" about it when you're still forced to do the other melee attacks in melee range when it's not up, and did nothing to the rest of the kit. I personally like it; if I know a fight well enough I can choose to save it for when a mechanic forces me away from easy melee range.

Like StriderShinryu said, it's mostly the worry about what comes next.

If this was the very first change for a job or if others hadn't be handled so extremely in the not so distant past, then you would see far less outcry and defensive voices about it.
The problem is that the job designers have a horrible track record of keeping job identity alive and given how other jobs have been handled, the next logical step would be for RDM to loose it's melee range identity and skill expression of it next.
It also doesn't help that the devs are again far too secretive as to what they even plan in 8.0 or what they themselves see as job identity so this change seems like the first step to what they want to do.

The only thought they have shown for the jobs lately was to adjust them for fight designs.
One can like or dislike that but it's a clearly one sided direction without even listening to the other side or giving them alternatives.