RDM Changes

[Solilunaris]

Fun thing is we have Reprise this is absolutely useless and could’ve been the solution to mana dump if we cannot be in melee and want to keep uptime and not overcap. Nope we kept the useless and removed the fun. Absolute terrible choice

[Akivar]

Why would they do anything with what is essentially a useless ability. That would make too much sense.

[Milkbeard]

Personally, I have found all the new changes to be good.

I believe there was a bit of a hit to "class identity" that people are struggling with. For example, the three-GCD sword combo becoming ranged while under the two-minute Manafication burst could probably benefit from a different animation; this would better convey that the attacks are now ranged rather than melee. I also believe that Manafication having a damage buff was never ideal because it was often misaligned and didn't fall under Embolden when manarushing. This change to Manafication had deeper mechanics in mind that most people are only viewing at a surface level.

I do not personally believe that the "fun" of Red Mage was stealing a melee player's position during certain content. When they design bosses, they have balanced party compositions in mind. A Red Mage delaying a sword combo during a two-minute burst—just to wait their turn to get three GCDs on the boss—isn't what made this class fun. It was only three GCDs (six for an actual burst if stored up) in a combo that is already far more ranged than melee to begin with.

Only ragging on a job's changes without appreciating the good is how you get them to pull the plug entirely. We know what that looks like because it has happened to other jobs. We need to rinse off some of this negativity and show that we aren't just crybabies. You might hate that it’s ranged now, but you should look at how these changes affect RDM in a gameplay sense, not just how it looks. You are literally being a melee outside of 2 min burst windows for that mobility sword combo, and you still have to use your gap closer, the identity and fun aren't dead. We just need a reinforcement of our identity more in 8.0. RED MAGE IS STILL FUN :0

These changes were good, just please reinforce our class identity in 8.0!

Edit: for spelling and grammar.

[Milkbeard]

Fun thing is we have Reprise this is absolutely useless and could’ve been the solution to mana dump if we cannot be in melee and want to keep uptime and not overcap. Nope we kept the useless and removed the fun. Absolute terrible choice

How could a mana dump be a solution for red mage? It would have to stronger than at least half an entire sword and spell combo to ever be worth doing something like that before a boss leaves. And if its' about balancing your mana and cutting 20 from each then use moulinet. I love the creativity, but red mage's resource just doesn't work like that. Functionally, reprise is a mana dump, because its stronger than any part of the resource spending sword hits. Do you really want a knock off dispair? I don't

[Solilunaris]

How could a mana dump be a solution for red mage? It would have to stronger than at least half an entire sword and spell combo to ever be worth doing something like that before a boss leaves. And if its' about balancing your mana and cutting 20 from each then use moulinet. I love the creativity, but red mage's resource just doesn't work like that. Functionally, reprise is a mana dump, because its stronger than any part of the resource spending sword hits. Do you really want a knock off dispair? I don't

I mean instead of hitting the job identity they could have made the mana dump ability something useful?

Make reprise a combo that deals less damage than a full melee combo would work: you still are encouraged to get in melee range but if you can’t by any reason or you have to move and stay far you have a ranged burst ready.
It’s literally the function of Reprise as for now apart from mana dumping: too far but want to keep uptime and not overcap? Reprise.

The new changes make ZERO sense and are redundant

[Milkbeard]

I mean instead of hitting the job identity they could have made the mana dump ability something useful?

Make reprise a combo that deals less damage than a full melee combo would work: you still are encouraged to get in melee range but if you can’t by any reason or you have to move and stay far you have a ranged burst ready.
It’s literally the function of Reprise as for now apart from mana dumping: too far but want to keep uptime and not overcap? Reprise.

The new changes make ZERO sense and are redundant

okay I under stand your personal creative take on what reprise "could be" just now

But the argument that the new changes make zero sense wasn't supported by that at all and I believe you are wanting my personal take by tacking it on at the end. Manafication's DPS buff was condensed because it was redundant. The range change on the 1-2-3 combo is a new change you dislike. I disagree with the "new-gen" take that this range change has killed the job's identity; I think we can communicate about a job needing changes without reacting to a range change on the 1-2-3 as if the job had been gutted.

This has been one of the most well-received jobs since its launch. You don't see long videos complaining about it or players on The Balance taking a dump on it. You just see threads like this one, taking a simple range change on a move and using it to say the class has been gutted and to argue that everything else in its kit needs to be changed. That isn't functional discourse; it's spearheading negativity without being constructive. Trust me, you won't like the result when the devs have to decide what the class will look like next. We should actively be trying to paint a better picture of what we want Red Mage to look like instead of trying to start bandwagons.

[Supersnow845]

okay I under stand your personal creative take on what reprise "could be" just now

But the argument that the new changes make zero sense wasn't supported by that at all and I believe you are wanting my personal take by tacking it on at the end. Manafication's DPS buff was condensed because it was redundant. The range change on the 1-2-3 combo is a new change you dislike. I disagree with the "new-gen" take that this range change has killed the job's identity; I think we can communicate about a job needing changes without reacting to a range change on the 1-2-3 as if the job had been gutted.

This has been one of the most well-received jobs since its launch. You don't see long videos complaining about it or players on The Balance taking a dump on it. You just see threads like this one, taking a simple range change on a move and using it to say the class has been gutted and to argue that everything else in its kit needs to be changed. That isn't functional discourse; it's spearheading negativity without being constructive. Trust me, you won't like the result when the devs have to decide what the class will look like next. We should actively be trying to paint a better picture of what we want Red Mage to look like instead of trying to start bandwagons.

You speak as if the devs have spent the last 4 years doing banger after banger on combat combat changes then had one change that was mildly controversial and then go “why are you losing your minds”

For a lot of people this is another in a long long line of shaving away interesting pain points in a job for the sake of ~~(flawed)~~ encounter design. GNB is another, as is BLM, PCT, MCH, PLD, SMN, the healers, DRG and a few others I can’t remember

Unless your perspective is solely focused on not wanting to miss the melee combo in a strict positional limitation of the encounter design then at absolute best this change could be considered vaguely neutral, if you care about the hybrid design of the job this is an objective reduction in its identity on that front. And people don’t have a lot of evidence that this is moving the job in a positive direction considering their track record with at least half of the other jobs

[Milkbeard]

You speak as if the devs have spent the last 4 years doing banger after banger on combat combat changes then had one change that was mildly controversial and then go “why are you losing your minds”

For a lot of people this is another in a long long line of shaving away interesting pain points in a job for the sake of ~~(flawed)~~ encounter design. GNB is another, as is BLM, PCT, MCH, PLD, SMN, the healers, DRG and a few others I can’t remember

Unless your perspective is solely focused on not wanting to miss the melee combo in a strict positional limitation of the encounter design then at absolute best this change could be considered vaguely neutral, if you care about the hybrid design of the job this is an objective reduction in its identity on that front. And people don’t have a lot of evidence that this is moving the job in a positive direction considering their track record with at least half of the other jobs

Yea, Red Mage is good, I wouldn't have played it since launch if I thought otherwise. Sounds like you have problems with the game man, not red mage.

[Supersnow845]

Yea, Red Mage is good, I wouldn't have played it since launch if I thought otherwise. Sounds like you have problems with the game man, not red mage.

Just absolutely god tier arguments

“I like the job, I personally don’t have a problem with the changes maybe it’s a you problem”

Why even bother asking why (in your eyes) people are “overreacting” to the change when your response is “I like it so sucks to suck I guess”

[Metricasc]

While i don't disagree with the core idea of the change (as on some part it alleviates some of the issues that did pop up especially with the common strats for Brute Abominator savage) I think the range increase should have been attached only to Magicked Swordplay rather than changing the buff itself to the range increase. the changes around when you get Prefulgance additionally has on a knock on effect that impacts when Manafication itself can be used as you really aren't able to now drift it more than 30 seconds from embolden for the damage buff (something in which will happen naturally given its 110s cooldown)

Additionally making a reprise have similar costs as the base melee combo (20-15-15), making it into its own combo and enhanced by both manafication buffs but making it worse than the single target melee combo in exchange for its range would have been a better way to fix the same issue rather than the current way they have addressed it. (given its current use as a mana dump is absolutely worthless)