GNB is TERRIBLE now!

[Daralii]

On the other hand, such a change to the job may just bring more people to play GNB, and the job would be more active during uptime.

They've been constantly redesigning jobs for people that don't play those jobs since SB, and it only works when the jobs have significantly higher DPS than the rest of that role. SMN had high numbers after its lobotomy, was highly desired during EW, and then became one of the least played jobs in the game once it fell behind other casters.

[bic12]

I think people are confusing "rigid/strict and punishing" with difficulty when they don't have anything to do with each other. Gunbreaker has never been a difficult job, it was just a strict job. There wasn't any complex decision making to make with the rotation to account for downtime, you just had to eat the downtime (accepting the damage loss or drift)

This is not true. Back when cartridge was harder to manage, one of the biggest optimizations you can do on fights with irregular downtime is figuring out how many burst strikes you can use. Another is learning when to optimally use the AoE combo in order to get cartridge, as it required one less GCD. Burning cartridge through the AoE also presented another avenue for optimization. This is fairly significant on P6 in DSR where downtime, AoE uptime (you aren't between both dragons all the time in P6) and managing bursts all coincide in a way that no other tanks had at the time.

[ForsakenRoe]

I strongly disagree that making them run on a 1 min loop is a bad thing, there is no real reason that it would be. When it's a 2 min loop, because of tanks having less complicated rotations than a melee dps they begin to feel slow and stale. Look at DRK, the only one left on a 2 min loop, it's slow until you get there and then it's a frenzy. Evening it out is not a bad thing, in my opinion, and doesn't really change balance too much.

Maybe the problem, then, is the 2min meta forcing everything to burst at a common denominator of 60s? WAR used to burst at 90s back in SB. DRK used to have some 45s CDs in its kit, etc


As for me, I tried new GNB in a Trials Roulette (got Necron). It felt like it pretty much played itself. Lionheart was especially sad-feeling to me, both because it's used twice as often (feels less special) and the potency nerfs. If SE wanted to lower the potency on each of the hits (to reduce how much impact getting vs not getting Crits had), they could have given it a set of Continuation actions of its own, to mirror the Gnashing Fang combo. You know, the system that makes GNB unique from the other Tanks? Changing how often we use it to fall directly in line with... oh right, EVERY other Tank, why? What issue was there that GNB bursting at 2min had, that it bursting at 1min magically solves?

Hell, why don't we just rip the bandaid off now, and make Lionheart combo guaranteed to Crit/DHit? If every Tank is fated to just trend towards elements of WAR's design, why not just go all in now, and make the rotations perfectly identical in potency, different only in VFX? Then we can have WAR, WAR with big sword, WAR with shield, and WAR with sword but it sometimes explodes. Worked well enough for Healers, right?

[Carstien]

Maybe the problem, then, is the 2min meta forcing everything to burst at a common denominator of 60s? WAR used to burst at 90s back in SB. DRK used to have some 45s CDs in its kit, etc


As for me, I tried new GNB in a Trials Roulette (got Necron). It felt like it pretty much played itself. Lionheart was especially sad-feeling to me, both because it's used twice as often (feels less special) and the potency nerfs. If SE wanted to lower the potency on each of the hits (to reduce how much impact getting vs not getting Crits had), they could have given it a set of Continuation actions of its own, to mirror the Gnashing Fang combo. You know, the system that makes GNB unique from the other Tanks? Changing how often we use it to fall directly in line with... oh right, EVERY other Tank, why? What issue was there that GNB bursting at 2min had, that it bursting at 1min magically solves?

Hell, why don't we just rip the bandaid off now, and make Lionheart combo guaranteed to Crit/DHit? If every Tank is fated to just trend towards elements of WAR's design, why not just go all in now, and make the rotations perfectly identical in potency, different only in VFX? Then we can have WAR, WAR with big sword, WAR with shield, and WAR with sword but it sometimes explodes. Worked well enough for Healers, right?

You're not wrong, there are many ways they can even out the potentcy variance of lionheart, each with it's own problems. Talk about making it feel like WAR, that's what making it autocrit would do as you know. Giving it a continuation and lowering potency just turns it into gnashing fang. Not a bad thing but at that point why?

A 1 minute burst though, is something that works for tanks because of the downtime between burst windows and how much less active every tank rotation is by design. They'd have to change that whole design to make it a bad option and as for the 2 min burst window itself, that isn't changing. It was made that way for a reason, so all jobs can feed into it or from it with consistency. That's why 90s buffs were generally removed, why anything but a 2min buff is pretty rare in jobs now. No matter what time frame you put for the raid buffs though, whether standardizing to a 1 min, 2 min, 3 min, 90 sec, etc...it doesn't matter. People will save their strongest skills for that window giving the option no matter where it is, after using in the opener, or they will complain that their best skills fall out of it. Look no further than MNK for an example that uses a redundant skill in the opener so they don't end up with their most powerful outside of raid buffs, where it would fall if playing as designed. If you've never tried it just look up double lunar opener for MNK.

Ultimately there is no perfect solution for everybody but I think this one is pretty clean for me with my 1 day of experience in it. That's all I got.

[Derio]

Seeing what happened to GNB makes me fearful for what will happen to DRK in 8.0

[Daralii]

Seeing what happened to GNB makes me fearful for what will happen to DRK in 8.0

Bloodied Oblation
Lv. 102
[Insert Bloodwhetting's list of effects]
9000 MP

[ForsakenRoe]

You're not wrong, there are many ways they can even out the potentcy variance of lionheart, each with it's own problems. Talk about making it feel like WAR, that's what making it autocrit would do as you know. Giving it a continuation and lowering potency just turns it into gnashing fang. Not a bad thing but at that point why?

A 1 minute burst though, is something that works for tanks because of the downtime between burst windows and how much less active every tank rotation is by design. They'd have to change that whole design to make it a bad option and as for the 2 min burst window itself, that isn't changing. It was made that way for a reason, so all jobs can feed into it or from it with consistency. That's why 90s buffs were generally removed, why anything but a 2min buff is pretty rare in jobs now. No matter what time frame you put for the raid buffs though, whether standardizing to a 1 min, 2 min, 3 min, 90 sec, etc...it doesn't matter. People will save their strongest skills for that window giving the option no matter where it is, after using in the opener, or they will complain that their best skills fall out of it. Look no further than MNK for an example that uses a redundant skill in the opener so they don't end up with their most powerful outside of raid buffs, where it would fall if playing as designed. If you've never tried it just look up double lunar opener for MNK.

Ultimately there is no perfect solution for everybody but I think this one is pretty clean for me with my 1 day of experience in it. That's all I got.

Yes, in case it wasn't obvious, me saying 'Make Lionheart guaranteed to Crit' was sarcasm, alluding to how you would, with such a change, press Inner Release Bloodfest, and then press 3 Fell Cleaves 3 Lionheart Combo hits. And all 3 hits would be guaranteed to Crit and DHit and everyone would cheer and say 'wow this feels so cool I love big number'

'At that point, why?' Why, is because Gnashing Fang is a GNB thing, and Lionheart with Continuation feeling like a GNB thing (Gnashing Fang) makes Lionheart itself feel like a GNB thing, instead of a bastardized 'every Tank has this' thing. It would feed into GNB identity, not diminish it, to have more Continuation usage in the rotation. Heck, stick a Continuation onto Double Down too

I am aware of Double Lunar opener on Monk. But that proves the point: Every Job conforms to the 2min burst window, and if it doesn't for any reason, either SE changes it so that it does (because god forbid we acknowledge that the 2min meta is the problem, not the Jobs), or the playerbase finds a rotation that forces conformity, even if that means the resulting rotation is janky as hell. Overcapping a Nadi on purpose seems counterintuitive to me, but thanks to SE's lack of action to address the issue, and the DPS gain from playing the 'weird' rotation, that's how MNK is until further notice. But there's been times in the past when weird interactions didn't get hammered into conformity by SE. NIN, in SB, was able to get a TINY DPS gain by using Fuma - Katon - Doton with TCJ, rather than the standard Fuma - Raiton - Suiton the devs expected. Rather than immediately crater the discovered gameplay, they applied a nerf elsewhere in the kit (iirc it was to one of their 123 combo), to make sure NIN didn't massively overperform, but let the weird optimization remain in place (then they cratered it in 5.0/5.1 by adjusting the Ninjutsu potencies (and making them GCD), and then fully buried it in 6.1 when they made Hide reset Doton)

[Xeonaught]

I main Gun breaker and played a few fights and noticed I'm drifting even worse now then before especially with Blasting Zone not sure what to make of it just yet going to take a bit of getting used too just like with the double down change at the start of Dawn trail but right now Burst strike feels absolutely useless

[Amh_Wilzuun]

This is why the forums aren’t taken seriously. The devs actually make a positive job change which improves QOL, heightens the job fantasy (more booms, more burst), and even creates new exciting ways to optimize and it’s still not enough for you people.

And the two minute meta has nothing to do with this. GNB was already on the two minute meta like every other job, 120 is a multiple of 60. And people should care less about damage leaderboards that won’t be relevant in the next patch instead of how satisfying it is to play

[SamJC]

Just created a account to type here because i could not believe that there's people that find the gnb changes bad.

The job was not hard, it just was fucking awful in specific scenarios and SE knews that and they kept changing the job and it seems finally they found the gold spot for gnb. Ask yourself

Why they decreased DD from 2 to 1 cart before? Because every burst you were obligated to have 3 carts stocked, some fights you had to do AOE rotation on a single target just to have 3 carts before a downtime, if not you lose 3 or more gcds building up gauge while everyone is bursting, the player was punished there for not doing a aoe rotation on a SINGLE TARGET.

Why they changed gnashing fang? Because a simple downtime could possibly destroy your entire rotation, imagine a fight, after your burst, your gnashing fang is about to come back and the boss turns untargetable for 10 seconds and come back or you need to respect one mechanic and thus go out of melee range, congratulations, now you gnashing fang is misplaced forever. What i could otimize here? Nothing! I just got punished because my job says so and not because i played bad, you can say "use gnashing fang later/earlier" but the truth is every single time after a burst gnb players needed to pray until the next gnashing fangs happens that nothing will prevent they from using it

GNB was the only job to be heavily punished because of a fight mechanic and the changes were necessary