GNB is TERRIBLE now!

[Rithy255]

Delirium should be a 40s CD.
Reduce the potency to compensate but keep the MP generation as is

Easiest fix to DRK on the planet.

This would actually be kinda neat I really would like delirium on 40s. And it lines up with the all mighty 2 minutes

[Amh_Wilzuun]

This is why the forums aren’t taken seriously. The devs actually make a positive job change which improves QOL, heightens the job fantasy (more booms, more burst), and even creates new exciting ways to optimize and it’s still not enough for you people.

And the two minute meta has nothing to do with this. GNB was already on the two minute meta like every other job, 120 is a multiple of 60. And people should care less about damage leaderboards that won’t be relevant in the next patch instead of how satisfying it is to play

[SamJC]

Just created a account to type here because i could not believe that there's people that find the gnb changes bad.

The job was not hard, it just was fucking awful in specific scenarios and SE knews that and they kept changing the job and it seems finally they found the gold spot for gnb. Ask yourself

Why they decreased DD from 2 to 1 cart before? Because every burst you were obligated to have 3 carts stocked, some fights you had to do AOE rotation on a single target just to have 3 carts before a downtime, if not you lose 3 or more gcds building up gauge while everyone is bursting, the player was punished there for not doing a aoe rotation on a SINGLE TARGET.

Why they changed gnashing fang? Because a simple downtime could possibly destroy your entire rotation, imagine a fight, after your burst, your gnashing fang is about to come back and the boss turns untargetable for 10 seconds and come back or you need to respect one mechanic and thus go out of melee range, congratulations, now you gnashing fang is misplaced forever. What i could otimize here? Nothing! I just got punished because my job says so and not because i played bad, you can say "use gnashing fang later/earlier" but the truth is every single time after a burst gnb players needed to pray until the next gnashing fangs happens that nothing will prevent they from using it

GNB was the only job to be heavily punished because of a fight mechanic and the changes were necessary

[ZorahHellmann]

no i think they're quite good actually, i don't see being punished for any bit of downtime in the previous iteration was fine or acceptable

[ForsakenRoe]

Absolute comedy, that this thread was dead and buried under several pages of other topics, for around 24 hours. Most threads that go 24h without activity are effectively 'dead'.
But suddenly, something happened within the past few hours, that brought it back into focus. Something that would make people look for this thread specifically, despite it being buried behind several pages of other topics.
Wonder what that 'something' could have been. Guess we'll never know, eh

This is why the forums aren’t taken seriously. The devs actually make a positive job change which improves QOL, heightens the job fantasy (more booms, more burst), and even creates new exciting ways to optimize and it’s still not enough for you people.

And the two minute meta has nothing to do with this. GNB was already on the two minute meta like every other job, 120 is a multiple of 60. And people should care less about damage leaderboards that won’t be relevant in the next patch instead of how satisfying it is to play

Personally, the Gnashing charges are whatever, I don't mind them adding that to alleviate drift issues. Doubling Sonic Break's DOT potency/halving its duration also has precedent, as they did that with things like Medica2 in the past, to make each tick feel more impactful, so I don't mind that either. If those were the only changes, I would have no issues, and would in fact call it 'good changes, thanks SE'. I'd even be okay with them having Bloodfest trigger the '6 Cartridges' effect, to prevent overcap/make 'exact ammo count' less of an issue going into your burst.

No, my primary concern is with the CD reduction to Bloodfest, and having to reduce all those potencies to make room for a second Lionheart combo per 2min. Changing Bloodfest into Inner Release, Lionheart into the 3 Fell Cleaves it grants, and by proxy, Double Down into Primal Rend, doesn't accentuate the GNB Identity, it just makes it feel more like every other Tank in its gameplay. Yes, 120 is a multiple of 60. Every Tank bursted at 2min. DRK still does, with a 'mini burst' at 60s and a 'full burst' at 2min when everything realigns. So why did GNB need to be moved from a 'mini burst/full burst' kind of thing, to a 'full burst every 60s' like WAR and PLD? Does DRK need Living Shadow to be changed to a 60s CD too, and for Shadowbringer to be reduced to 30s Charge time, with potency/duration reductions to facilitate this?

Job fantasy is that Lionheart, being the last Renzokuken finisher you unlock in FF8, hits very hard. It hits less hard now. I don't think that using it twice as often feels better, I think the exact opposite. Using something more often diminishes how 'cool' it feels. If their concern was the potency made it too variable in damage due to Crit Variance, there were ways to do that without resorting to 'make it feel even more like WAR/PLD'. For example, introduce Continuation steps after each hit. More booms, more Job fantasy, right?

Sod the damage leaderboards, too. You're right, people should care less about them. How satisfying something is to play, however, is entirely subjective, and whenever I needed to play Tank for something, I would prefer GNB over other Tanks specifically to try and avoid the WARification the Role has suffered, as much as possible. I figured the Healers would be the final refuge, because SE has previously been deathly allergic to adding new damage actions/'big hits' to them, but even WHM got one with Glare4 this expansion, so I guess nothing is safe from the WARificiation

[Amh_Wilzuun]

Absolute comedy, that this thread was dead and buried under several pages of other topics, for around 24 hours. Most threads that go 24h without activity are effectively 'dead'.
But suddenly, something happened within the past few hours, that brought it back into focus. Something that would make people look for this thread specifically, despite it being buried behind several pages of other topics.
Wonder what that 'something' could have been. Guess we'll never know, eh

This thread was on the front page of general discussion for me, I don't know what you are going on about or how it's relevant my points

No, my primary concern is with the CD reduction to Bloodfest, and having to reduce all those potencies to make room for a second Lionheart combo per 2min. Changing Bloodfest into Inner Release, Lionheart into the 3 Fell Cleaves it grants, and by proxy, Double Down into Primal Rend, doesn't accentuate the GNB Identity, it just makes it feel more like every other Tank in its gameplay. Yes, 120 is a multiple of 60. Every Tank bursted at 2min. DRK still does, with a 'mini burst' at 60s and a 'full burst' at 2min when everything realigns. So why did GNB need to be moved from a 'mini burst/full burst' kind of thing, to a 'full burst every 60s' like WAR and PLD? Does DRK need Living Shadow to be changed to a 60s CD too-

I really think you are making a mountain out of a molehile here. Having some abilities be 120 or 60 doesn't really change the fact that every job is on the same two minute loop now. Moving one ability to every 60s vs every 120s hardly changes anything. Lionhart is a fun ability and I like being able to do it more. Otherwise you fill those odd No Mercy windows with just filler GCDs after the big buttons. Dark Knight is not a "120s job" just because it presses a single extra button during its even burst, that's ridiculous. You just seem way too hyperfixated on 120 vs 60 when in Dawntrail it barely even matters at the end of day. I'm not a 2 minute meta defender but this the current game we play in. Why is pressing a button at 60s vs 120s the end all be all for job identity in your book? I mentioned that the gnashing changes that are "whatever" to you allow for cool new optimization, that far outweighs the downsides of perceived loss of fake job identity from being a "120s job".

Trying to conflate GNB abilities with WAR abilities is also just reductive to me. Bloodspiller was rightfully called out as being too similar to Fell Cleave because it is a 50 gauge spender where you get 3 free uses every 60s. They are exactly the same. But now everything with a three step combo is Fell Cleave now? I guess Vicewinder and RDM melee combo are inner release now too. What are we even doing here? Just seems like agenda pushing. Every 60s cooldown is not Inner Release, just like every 120s CD wasn't Lionheart.

[Carin-Eri]

Absolute comedy, that this thread was dead and buried under several pages of other topics, for around 24 hours. Most threads that go 24h without activity are effectively 'dead'.
But suddenly, something happened within the past few hours, that brought it back into focus. Something that would make people look for this thread specifically, despite it being buried behind several pages of other topics.
Wonder what that 'something' could have been. Guess we'll never know, eh

Whilst I may be missing the /s in this (?) I suspect it would've had something to do with Xeno posting videos on the matter.

[Amh_Wilzuun]

Job fantasy is that Lionheart, being the last Renzokuken finisher you unlock in FF8, hits very hard. It hits less hard now. I don't think that using it twice as often feels better, I think the exact opposite. Using something more often diminishes how 'cool' it feels. If their concern was the potency made it too variable in damage due to Crit Variance, there were ways to do that without resorting to 'make it feel even more like WAR/PLD'. For example, introduce Continuation steps after each hit. More booms, more Job fantasy, right?

This is just purely subjective on whether or not it feels less cool if you use it more. I don't think an ability needs to be every 2 minutes to feel cool. You midare every minute or more on Sam and i don't think it's less cool for it. I think FF14 could use less of super cool buttons you only ever press when your 2 minute buff procs it. Dawntrail added WAY too many of those.

[Kishin12345]

I like the changes. Gnb is more flexible now and better suited for various situations. Cutting the bloodfest cd to 60 seconds makes the job feel more active. Sometimes it even feels quite busy tbh. Overall i think this was a good step and i expect exactly this from 8.0. They wanted to bring back more stress to the encounters and 8.0 is supposed to bring back more stress and awareness to the jobs, so i think changes like these that make jobs feel like they do more is what we'll see more of.

[SyferU]