GNB is TERRIBLE now!

[DarkOmegaGod]

You can spot the moment when a streamer sicced his minions on the thread. Maybe come up with your own opinions for once.

[Kai-XP]

So what's the matter with the GNB changes? In Theory, the rotation doesn't change on a casual level and band aid's the issue of Gnashing Fang drift for those that play on 2.5 gcd

[ForsakenRoe]

So what's the matter with the GNB changes? In Theory, the rotation doesn't change on a casual level and band aid's the issue of Gnashing Fang drift for those that play on 2.5 gcd

Gnashing change is fine and helps casual players
Sonic Break doing its damage in half the time is genuinely good and helps casual players
Bloodfest letting you temporarily overcap to 6 is okay and helps casual players

The contentious part, and it's a subjective thing so nobody's right or wrong on it per se, is Bloodfest being reduced to a 60s CD. Personally not a fan of the reduction because it makes it (and Lionheart) feel like it's just trying to be one of the other Tanks, with how WAR has IR/FellCleave, PLD has Imperator/Blade combo, and DRK has Delerium/Bloodspiller. It being 120s, while not amazingly unique, was at least slightly unique from the other Tanks and now that is gone. Additionally, the sheer amount of potency reductions across the board in order to make space in the DPS output for a second Lionheart combo per 2min loop, makes everything that is not Lionheart feel less impactful, and because Lionheart itself got reduced in potency, it too feels 'less impactful'

My take is, there were other Tanks that had this kind of design, for those who want this kind of design (burst at 60s by pressing 'big hit' 3 times in a row). Since GNB was plenty capable of clearing content with Bloodfest/Lionheart standing as a 2min CD (oftentimes outperforming the other Tanks too), I cannot tell what issue SE was trying to address by making Bloodfest/Lionheart a 60s CD (specifically the CD reduction, the 6 Cartridges thing I understand their intention). If there was an issue, however, I would have assumed that there'd be a solution that solves said issue, in a way that is thematic and unique to GNB, instead of just defaulting to the tried-and-tested 'press CD, then press big hit 3 times' (or 4 if you are PLD)

If I had to guess:
-Living Shadow cooldown reduced to 60s
-Shadowbringer reduced to 30s CD with two charges
-TBN no longer costs MP to use
-TBN no longer grants Dark Arts on break
-TBN when hit grants a regen
-TBN's CD increased to 25s

I throw up

[Kai-XP]

Gnashing change is fine and helps casual players
Sonic Break doing its damage in half the time is genuinely good and helps casual players
Bloodfest letting you temporarily overcap to 6 is okay and helps casual players

The contentious part, and it's a subjective thing so nobody's right or wrong on it per se, is Bloodfest being reduced to a 60s CD. Personally not a fan of the reduction because it makes it (and Lionheart) feel like it's just trying to be one of the other Tanks, with how WAR has IR/FellCleave, PLD has Imperator/Blade combo, and DRK has Delerium/Bloodspiller. It being 120s, while not amazingly unique, was at least slightly unique from the other Tanks and now that is gone. Additionally, the sheer amount of potency reductions across the board in order to make space in the DPS output for a second Lionheart combo per 2min loop, makes everything that is not Lionheart feel less impactful, and because Lionheart itself got reduced in potency, it too feels 'less impactful'

My take is, there were other Tanks that had this kind of design, for those who want this kind of design (burst at 60s by pressing 'big hit' 3 times in a row). Since GNB was plenty capable of clearing content with Bloodfest/Lionheart standing as a 2min CD (oftentimes outperforming the other Tanks too), I cannot tell what issue SE was trying to address by making Bloodfest/Lionheart a 60s CD (specifically the CD reduction, the 6 Cartridges thing I understand their intention). If there was an issue, however, I would have assumed that there'd be a solution that solves said issue, in a way that is thematic and unique to GNB, instead of just defaulting to the tried-and-tested 'press CD, then press big hit 3 times' (or 4 if you are PLD)

I personally wouldn't call Bloodfest being 120s being "unique" especially since back in ShadowBringers it was 90s, it was just their way SE doubling down on the job design flaw that is the 2min meta. If they really want to give identity back to the classes:
1) Instead of Job Identity, do Roles identity
a) Tanks
b) Healers
c) Striking Melee
d) Maiming Melee
e) Scouting Melee
f) Casters
g) Phy range

2) Go back to the 30s/1min/90s/2min cds instead of just a static 1/2 min cds
3) Change TBN cause comparatively speaking, it's a garbage Mit nowadays

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

3) Change TBN cause comparatively speaking, it's a garbage Mit nowadays

25% effective HP shield that exponentially scales with percentage mitigation, garbage mitigation? Where?

For context, 25% effective HP increase is also what Rampart does with its mitigation alone. If you used a single TBN in 20s with no further input, it literally matches Rampart. And it only gets better due to multiplicative scaling making it exponentially better, rather than having diminishing returns.

Formula used:

Effective HP = x / (1 - damage reduction / 100 )

Example: Effective HP = 10,000 / (1 - 20/100) -> 10,000 / (1 - 0,2) -> 10,000 / 0.8 = 12,500
12,500 is 25% greater than 10,000.

We can always talk about that some players don't like its MP cost or other aspects of it, but it is most certainly not weak or garbage.

[Akivar]

Not weak garbage unless you have 12 mobs around you. Then 25% of health is far worse than 15% mitigation. %mit defensives have theoretically unlimited mitigation protentional. TBN mitigation cap is 25% health + a bit. If they ever add hard content where you have to hold multiple mobs as a tank, people would realize how completely trash TBN is against anything over 1 enemy. It just math bro.

[Terhix]

Not weak garbage unless you have 12 mobs around you. Then 25% of health is far worse than 15% mitigation. %mit defensives have theoretically unlimited mitigation protentional. TBN mitigation cap is 25% health + a bit. If they ever add hard content where you have to hold multiple mobs as a tank, people would realize how completely trash TBN is against anything over 1 enemy. It just math bro.

We just had a boss with multiple adds in savage and DRK is fine.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

*grabs chalk & board*

Not weak garbage unless you have 12 mobs around you. Then 25% of health is far worse than 15% mitigation.

This is only true if the 15% mitigation lasts longer than the 25% shield's cooldown and enemies chew through your entire HP pool in that time. External healing/shields being applied will affect both equally in survival, so they are trivial to the comparison.

15% mitigation to eHP multiplier

eHP = 10,000 / (1-15/100) = 11,764.71 ---> That's +17.76% eHP

If you use TBN or the 15% mitigation and nothing else for their full duration and reach 1 HP, TBN will last you longer before you reach 1 HP. If you don't reach 1 HP, TBN will be better because it will eat through TBN first before going to your regular HP.

So even if your 15% mitigation had a 15s duration and a 15s cooldown so you could use it as often as TBN, you would still have less effective HP than using TBN and having it eat through the shield first.

%mit defensives have theoretically unlimited mitigation protentional. TBN mitigation cap is 25% health + a bit.

They literally don't though. Your main limiter is your max health. Every % mit is just an eHP multiplier that scales similarly to TBN for effective HP for it's duration. If we are talking about single instances or condensed bursts of damage (busters), they behave virtually the same.

If they ever add hard content where you have to hold multiple mobs as a tank, people would realize how completely trash TBN is against anything over 1 enemy.

DRK did fine mitigation wise for M6S. What sets the job apart from other tanks is the other properties that tank CDs have, namely healing & regen effects, which DRK has - but differently applied and not quite the same quantity. DRK's main advantage is the lower cooldown on its extra CD (Dark Mind) + short mitigation (The Blackest Night), as well as having Oblation as a separate optional layer in place of a TBN upgrade.

It just math bro.

This is quite rich given the one that's been providing math to prove points is me. I'm not going by feels, I'm going by math.

[Oizen]

Basically every single world first race party ran DRK/PLD into M6S for a reason.
Week 1 DRK did better than Week 1 WAR did despite the perception of bloodwhetting being broken in AOE. I honestly don't think WAR even got to be called broken in that fight until gear was distributed.