GNB is TERRIBLE now!

[Carstien]

The GNB changes are excellent. All this shows me is you don't understand either the job itself, balance, or both.

First, elephant in the room, yes, damage nerf. Yes, it needed it, or the other tanks needed buffs to bring them in line. They went with nerf, valid option, it's fine.

Now the main changes. Yeah, it's a 1 minute job now. That's not a bad change, GNB is far more forgiving now, you won't ever waste cartridges on bloodfest because of a bad situation or have to delay it because now it bumps you up to a max of 6 and gives you 3 to fill you up. Yes, Double down costs 2 now, but you have 6 so it's the same. Lionheart combo is done once per minute instead of once every 2 minutes and gets a potency nerf, brilliant! Less potency but more uses becomes more consistency, if you didn't crit and/or direct hit your lionheart it felt terrible because of the huge damage gain, that has been made smaller, so the inconsistencies in damage between equally performing players has decreased. In short, less RNG.

It also puts you in a pretty standard loop instead of having the boring 1 minute rotation and the better 2 minute rotation. Gnashing fang on charges is another great change because you have on to throw around wherever you like, so you can hold it if you need to reposition or have downtime coming up without drifting and still have it up for your burst. Sonic break is a shorter dot, so you lose less damage when a target dies shortly after being applied or goes invulnerable.

I feel people are complaining because that's just what people do when something they like changes, but not all change is bad. Embrace it, enjoy it. Put time in to it before judging it, it's literally day 1.

[Rithy255]

Snip.

GNB changes being excellent is subjective, if you like warrior and having nothing to really manage then yes it's a excellent change if you don't then oh well too bad for you theirs no tank anymore that's got to manage anything other then auto rotation and burst.

Damage nerf was needed, I also agree that Lionheart crit rng was terrible but its not like they could have changed that without completely changing the job.

It is a bad design to make another tank fall under 1 minute, PLD/WAR already fall under one minute, if you take a second to look GNB and PLD are even more similar now because of it which is a bad thing. Tanks should generally feel different enough.

Doesn't the Gnashing fang changes actually restrict gnb under level 100 to only use it twice during no mercy? I could be wrong. I'd be more in favour of it having two charges if they accounted for any content below 100 ever but they don't, it took them ages to give PLD a gap closer at 70 content instead of 80 content and to give dark missionary at 70 content.

People are complaining because they've changed the job into less management and into a simplified watered down version of it's self that's very simple, frankly some people actually like room to mess up at times it's not bad that a job punishes you for making mistakes in a rotation.

The regular 123 combo on every job IS filler. That's it's whole purpose.

Regular 1, 2, 3 shouldn't be filler.

Rotations like samurai's filler should be filler having different combos, Procs like dancers should be filler, a 1, 2, 3 is not a good example of filler, not on a tank, healer or a dps it's just bad and frankly boring.

[Carstien]

It is a bad design to make another tank fall under 1 minute, PLD/WAR already fall under one minute, if you take a second to look GNB and PLD are even more similar now because of it which is a bad thing. Tanks should generally feel different enough.

Doesn't the Gnashing fang changes actually restrict gnb under level 100 to only use it twice during no mercy? I could be wrong. I'd be more in favour of it having two charges if they accounted for any content below 100 ever but they don't, it took them ages to give PLD a gap closer at 70 content instead of 80 content and to give dark missionary at 70 content.



Regular 1, 2, 3 shouldn't be filler.

Rotations like samurai's filler should be filler having different combos, Procs like dancers should be filler, a 1, 2, 3 is not a good example of filler, not on a tank, healer or a dps it's just bad and frankly boring.

I strongly disagree that making them run on a 1 min loop is a bad thing, there is no real reason that it would be. When it's a 2 min loop, because of tanks having less complicated rotations than a melee dps they begin to feel slow and stale. Look at DRK, the only one left on a 2 min loop, it's slow until you get there and then it's a frenzy. Evening it out is not a bad thing, in my opinion, and doesn't really change balance too much. I think the tanks feel different enough while also having the tools to compete. GNB has a faster paced 1 minute, WAR is slower but heavy hitting with the satisfying crunches and complete freedom of choice in the order you use the skills and PLD's is magical and can be done at ranged with a slight bit of flexibility. They maintain their identity without being polar opposites, imo.

Gnashing isn't restricted like that, no. You can only fit 8/9 GCD's under NM so that is one gnashing fang combo, lionheart combo, double down, sonic break. That's 8 total, add in a burst strike or if you really want to optimize time your gnashing fang so that the last GCD is under NM if you have a fast enough skp but it's a minor gain and otherwise you're free to just gnashing when you feel you have the time because of the charge system. I like to play on slower SKSP because I use PLD a lot and it needs 2.50 so I will never get more than one gnashing under NM, making the second completely free in my rotation.

The 123 combos are all filler, they just are. Yes, they are the backbone of the job but also filler, you use them when you don't have your stronger, better GCD's available. I don't see how this is even considered debatable for any of the tanks, or any job. When your burst and stronger gcd's are on cooldown, you resort to the filler. There may be exceptions, won't deny that but it's the general rule of thumb.

[Reginald_Cain]

Rithys got a point. The best filler never FEELS like filler. Dragoon having a 5 button combo with buttons that transform animation when executed correctly is awesome. It was even cooler when wheeling thrust and fang and claw interacted with gauge. Reapers 123 filler would feel really bad if it didn't have to manage mark of death and soul slice. People actually want reaper debuff gone and it makes me big sad.

Paladin used to and still kinda does have the best filler combo of the tanks imo. 1 2 3 spell new 123 animation is so satisfying compared to the 9999th soul eater combo or solid barrel combo. Warrior has two finishers to its 123 and each weapon skill plays a slash sound per step in the combo.

Heavy swing-1 swing sound effect > main - 2 swing sounds > storms path - 3 slash sounds. So warrior gets a bonus for me because of that.

[FalconPunchTigerknee]

8.0 patch.

[Immut]

8.0 patch.

Why stop there? Bring in Ys bump combat.

[Luca_]

I really don't like these changes after giving them a chance in the normal raids last night, unfortunately. I don't really know how to properly describe why it feels off, but it's like they took a belt sander to the job for the sake of people who don't actually play it.

Pretty disappointed since I've been pretty much onetricking GNB since the beginning of Endwalker when I started raiding. I think I'm gonna end up swapping to DRK.

[Azurarok]

Would I perform much better with the job with these changes? Absolutely.

Did I need help reaching the skill ceiling for a tank job I don't even main? Absolutely Not.

[Servebotfrank]

I think people are confusing "rigid/strict and punishing" with difficulty when they don't have anything to do with each other. Gunbreaker has never been a difficult job, it was just a strict job. There wasn't any complex decision making to make with the rotation to account for downtime, you just had to eat the downtime (accepting the damage loss or drift) or greed to make sure you didn't drift. No one considers Reaper to be a difficult dps job, it has a very simple rotation, but it is an extremely punishing job to make mistakes on.

What's changed with Gunbreaker, you can burst more often now and you have more flexibility with gnashing fang. Wouldn't allowing players to adjust their rotation based on the fight be a better expression of skill other than "yeah my ping allowed me to greed this mechanic like a maniac to get gnashing fan off without eating a damage down because I lived on the West Coast."

[bic12]

I think people are confusing "rigid/strict and punishing" with difficulty when they don't have anything to do with each other. Gunbreaker has never been a difficult job, it was just a strict job. There wasn't any complex decision making to make with the rotation to account for downtime, you just had to eat the downtime (accepting the damage loss or drift)

This is not true. Back when cartridge was harder to manage, one of the biggest optimizations you can do on fights with irregular downtime is figuring out how many burst strikes you can use. Another is learning when to optimally use the AoE combo in order to get cartridge, as it required one less GCD. Burning cartridge through the AoE also presented another avenue for optimization. This is fairly significant on P6 in DSR where downtime, AoE uptime (you aren't between both dragons all the time in P6) and managing bursts all coincide in a way that no other tanks had at the time.