Thread: Revelations from Patch 7.4: Into the Mist

Originally Posted by Cleretic

I don't like the theory because it's not their story,

This is such a wild claim when the past few patches have been consistently weaving in Ascian involvement already, from Alexandria's backstory, to the key, to Calyx himself. Not only that, but given that the Ancients are the progenitors of a vast majority of the story's beats, it's very odd to try to disentangle them from any portion of the game's history and claim it's not their story, especially when we have no idea what's going on or what direction we're heading in. The Hydaelyn and Zodiark era might be finished, but as we've seen with the Pandaemonium raids, that's not to say that all's ell that ends well, not by a long shot.

There are just more exciting answers to this question than 'Azem', and honestly I really, REALLY wish this forum (and the playerbase as a whole but these forums are exceptionally bad about it) would stop immediately insisting that the answer to every mystery is the shortest possible line they can draw to 'the Ancients' or 'the Ascians'

We currently have a key with Azem's exact associated purpose, colour and symbol, down to the fading lines on the circle, Ascians, and the suggestion of another imminent calamity. I don't think this is one of those times.

Originally Posted by Vallavia

I'd wager this is also what Miayli identifies as fate, which immediately called to mind the quote from Emet-Selch to commemorate Azem's crystal:

I'm glad someone else thought this lol, I was like "that's an interesting word..." And it does feel very like what we know of them to create some such object to throw out into the mortal world, foreseeing its use at some juncture. It's noteworthy that despite how long it's been around, no one's ever yet managed to properly wield it or unlock its secrets, and this mention of an "inexorable force" suggests to me it could be by design.

Originally Posted by Cleretic

The Ancients are a poor answer to the question not because they are an inherently bad answer, but because that route is just... a dead end. The Ancients don't have those gears, that's just not the notes their story plays. Making the key a product of Azem, or any Ancient (save maybe Venat, but that story was already told), just makes less story; there are not compelling, satisfying and interesting answers to the questions the key raises if those questions are being asked in the Ancient world.

I agree. But I can also understand why people usually think about this connexion first, given that most of the game comes from some form os Ascian meddling or Ancient storylines. And once the Ancient arching story was over, not even a full extension in and we are again confronted to another Ascian. And while I also agree that a great story can stem from this, there are considerable chances that the writers will tie the Winterer story to the Ancients somehow.

I also like it when people make suggestions and interpretations out of the (ascian) box here on the forums. But I would tend to think the writers usually stick to what they know rather than making brand new stories when it comes to MSQ. The "all new" features are usually world building related (like Doman / First / Tural history for instance).

Where is Moose

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I have a question.

I've been skimming through the story and not really taking in any of the finer details, so if this is totally off the table for reasons we've already been told please correct me. But is there a possibility that the "key" and its powers of interdimensional fusion (I think it's called?) was potentially Azem's answer to the problem of the Final Days and the Sundering? We know they disappeared and that they "sought to defy fate in their own way," and I find it interesting that it's termed "dimensional fusion" when it's being referred to as an object that supposedly enables travel, particularly since fusing dimensions is surely the reversal of creating and dispersing dimensions, or shards, as the Sundering did? It seems to me more that the existing Alexandria fused itself with the Source, particularly considering the remnants of the old city still remain, or am I misreading another pluck and drop as with the Crystal Tower? Environs seem much harder to "travel" through dimensions than a single building, though, and the way we have parts of Yyasulani with parts of the Ninth feels again more like a "fusion" to me, but like I said I haven't been keeping up with the current lore and theories at all and could be way off base, lol.

Spoilers on FFIX ahead:

The first time I heard the expression Dimensional Fusion it reminded me of the main plot of Final Fantasy IX, on which the planet Terra is terraforming Gaia so Terra inhabitants may live once again.
It was partially thwarted by the heroes.

Its process had already began and there is no definite answer in FFIX if it was completely halted.

Though, at the end of FFIX the Crystal that holds all creation together was destroyed and a eternal being appeared saying as long as there is the desire to die, he will someday come back and destroy everything once and for all, then disappear in a purple lighting effect too much similar to the thunder calamity to be a coincidence.

So, if Ninth really is the world of FFIX, heavily inspired
or not, the technology of Dimension Fusion was Terran and may have been studied by Gaians and of Calyx and Sphene's generation to save their lives from the levying calamity.

Originally Posted by Brandr

Spoilers on FFIX ahead:

Ah, thank you for this! IX is one of the FF games I haven't played, so the references are lost on me. This gives me a bit more insight at least. I feel like they have a habit of drawing a bit too much from prior games and expect the existing lore to bridge in the gap of its meaning in the story, as with Necron, and I'm left a little confused by it.

Originally Posted by Cleretic

All that is to say, I don't think the key was made by anyone we currently know about, Ancient or otherwise. That the reason the question has not been answered, and why all of our speculative theories have such clear holes, is because the answer has not been introduced yet.

I'm with you on this. Although I can see the difficulty to write something all new in a 10+ years narrative without feeling like an odd retcon. Still, I'd rather see them try something different.
The shard hopping narrative is up in the air since Shadowbringers, and I hope we will have a side quest at some point where Y'Shtola visits Runar back lol

Originally Posted by Mansion

I'm with you on this. Although I can see the difficulty to write something all new in a 10+ years narrative without feeling like an odd retcon. Still, I'd rather see them try something different.

I suppose it can't be said this early if this storyline is completely unforeshadowed as it hasn't yet begun in earnest, but given the way the story has developed since ARR I foresee that it will take the form of more additive 'retcons' that offer additional context for existing criteria much along the lines of the finer details of the Hydaelyn/Zodiark conflict or aetherology or even Ascians. I've seen the complaint that the 'Ancients are ultimately responsible for everything' beat has kind of reduced the setting, and I don't disagree in a broad sense, but I still think it may be counting the hens before they hatch to just assume this is ontologically true of everything on Etheirys, or that nothing escaped the Ancients' attention, or that nothing else was going on in the whole broader universe that we know was actively inhabited. Hell, there's even a sidequest in Amaurot where a group of citizens are discussing a whole separate society on the other side of the world during the time of the Final Days. One even objects to the principle of helping them at all since it would be an affront to this other society's sovereignty. So, all of this to say, there are plenty of other avenues already in the text, even if reading the tea leaves makes one outcome particularly striking.