Was BLM not enough?

[Ankhira]

Except that the other 3 casters either released simple or are shadows of their former selves.

What do you mean? BLM has always been harder to play optimally than RDM, and it still is despite the changes (RIP old BLM, I miss you). PCT is also more restrictive with cast times and painting. I don’t mean to push down your experience, but RDM was never that hard compared to the other casters. SMN is definitely the easiest, sure, but calling RDM the ‘last hard caster’ feels like a stretch when its whole thing is about utilizing instant casts.

[Voidmage]

Same goes in reverse though. If someone doesn't like a job getting simplified, than they can go play a different job. 3 other casters sitting right over there for anyone who doesn't like the RDM changes.

Personally I don't get the big deal because it didn't have any radical impact on my performance, so they could have just kept the job the same for whatever difference it makes, but the change also didn't "ruin" or "lobotomize" anything that I can tell.

There are people who mained a job for longer than some here even play the game.
Telling them to suck it up and play another one because it's now for someone else is not how a game should be designed.

And no, this is not regarding the RDM changes but in general.

[Aidorouge]

There are people who mained a job for longer than some here even play the game.
Telling them to suck it up and play another one because it's now for someone else is not how a game should be designed.

And no, this is not regarding the RDM changes but in general.

Well, sorry to say that "go play something else then" has become the default answer to anyone with any complaint ever when it comes to FF14. We've had people actively encouraging others to "shut up and quit" for over a year now (if not longer), whether they were someone getting bored over easier jobs, frustrated over harder fights, or lords knows what else was their final straw.

You're just not going to find much empathy or understanding between players anymore because everyone wants the game to be THEIR way regardless of who else gets culled in the process.

[Valence]

So it seems like a clash of 'ideals' between two different kinds of people. Those who see 'pain points' as something that allows for skill expression, and those who see 'pain points' as a nuisance that gets in the way of skill expression.

Not sure how you can reconcile that tbh, and it seems like the devs are siding with 'pain points bad', so the first group are losing out.

How can job constraints - and we're talking about actual constraints of design, not fighting against spaghetti servers - get in the way of skill expression?

[ElysiumDragon]

Let's take Dancer, for example.

Not being able to use Shield Samba during a Standard or Technical Step wasn't a 'pain point' that allowed for 'skill expression', it was a nuisance that locked out critically important mitigation during damage-heavy mechanics. Adjusting this didn't 'lobotomise' Dancer, or 'homogenize' the job, and neither would removing another notorious pain point, that being the Tillana Esprit issue, where you can quite literally overcap due to pure RNG entirely because of how Tillana works.

[Ankhira]

I don’t like when jobs get changed just for raid design. Not everyone raids, and it kinda sucks when a job loses the cool stuff that made it feel unique. Like with RDM dashing in to slash was peak RDM fantasy, now they can just slash the air from range and it looks weird. That’s a downgrade in every way unless you raid and even then it’s not really ‘better,’ just more convenient. My bigger worry is what if they keep pushing it toward full ranged next expansion, stripping out all the melee flavor.

I think gutting jobs for raid convenience is bad. But at the same time complaining about skill expression feels kinda overblown to me, personally. It's not like RDM was hard before, the parts of RDM that were hard are still there, you just don't have to go into Melee anymore during burst. You still have to slidecast, squeeze in as many quickcasts of your big damage without having to use Jolt and so on.

I don’t like jobs being made rigid for raiding, but honestly this RDM change isn’t nearly as bad as what happened to Black Mage. That's just my opinion, though.

[Arrius]

I don’t like when jobs get changed just for raid design. Not everyone raids, and it kinda sucks when a job loses the cool stuff that made it feel unique. Like with RDM dashing in to slash was peak RDM fantasy, now they can just slash the air from range and it looks weird. That’s a downgrade in every way unless you raid and even then it’s not really ‘better,’ just more convenient. My bigger worry is what if they keep pushing it toward full ranged next expansion, stripping out all the melee flavor.

I think gutting jobs for raid convenience is bad. But at the same time complaining about skill expression feels kinda overblown to me, personally. It's not like RDM was hard before, the parts of RDM that were hard are still there, you just don't have to go into Melee anymore during burst. You still have to slidecast, squeeze in as many quickcasts of your big damage without having to use Jolt and so on.

I don’t like jobs being made rigid for raiding, but honestly this RDM change isn’t nearly as bad as what happened to Black Mage. That's just my opinion, though.

You can still dash into melee with Corps-a-corpse during Manafication, but now you got at least a alternative when you got stacked up buffs with other players but being or getting into melee range is problematic due to AoE or terrain hazards.
The only bummer for me is that Engagement is not also included to the melee range buff, since that's a oGCD for me during the Enhanced Riposte combo.

[bic12]

What do you mean? BLM has always been harder to play optimally than RDM, and it still is despite the changes (RIP old BLM, I miss you). PCT is also more restrictive with cast times and painting. I don’t mean to push down your experience, but RDM was never that hard compared to the other casters. SMN is definitely the easiest, sure, but calling RDM the ‘last hard caster’ feels like a stretch when its whole thing is about utilizing instant casts.

RDM's instant casts are far more rigid and RDM has the fewest tools out of all the casters for on-demand movement.

RDM optimization also involved minimizing fleche and C6 drift which was not always trivial because you needed to make sure your instants lined up on the correct GCDs.

[Ankhira]

RDM's instant casts are far more rigid and RDM has the fewest tools out of all the casters for on-demand movement.

RDM optimization also involved minimizing fleche and C6 drift which was not always trivial because you needed to make sure your instants lined up on the correct GCDs.

And yet, that is all still there. The only thing you can do is use your melee combo from a distance, while I said before I also don't like this change, these optimizations are still there. Like, I got the Black Mage issues, I disagree with SE changing RDM this patch, but I feel like you're all acting like the job is completely ruined.. I genuinely don't get it.

Yes, I agreed, gutting jobs for raiding = bad, I hate it too, but RDM was not destroyed the way BLM was. Like...

[WawaMaxHeightLala]

Sigh if manafication is change here to stay at least make it spawn a fray like clone of our character so something is attacking in melee range. Just preserve the job identity at the least instead of go go gadget rapier