I really hope they don't just raise the level cap to 110...

[Veritas-Ancora]

ARR has too many dungeons compared to other expansions. Additionally, there absolutely has to be that first 10 levels where it is so easy to gain EXP that you can just kill enemies.

Jobs get unlocked at level 30, and HW jobs start at level 30. This also is when you can PvP. This all would make it logical for ARR to end at level 30 in a rework.

While expansions could just increase by 5 levels, the progression already feels slow due to being spread over only 10 levels instead of 50. So we could go 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, but we could also go 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 and then 90 for 8.0.

However, if they plan to continue level increases beyond 8.0 and want to keep it under level 100, they'd have little choice but to increase by 5 each expansion.

This is going to be messy.

This is going to make a mess of people wanting to play the old EX and Savage content.

I agree that a level crunch makes sense, it will encourage people to level multiple jobs, but every piece of ilvl gear is going to have to be edited from scratch (unless they just don't care, which checks out)

[ForsakenRoe]

ARR has too many dungeons compared to other expansions. Additionally, there absolutely has to be that first 10 levels where it is so easy to gain EXP that you can just kill enemies.

Jobs get unlocked at level 30, and HW jobs start at level 30. This also is when you can PvP. This all would make it logical for ARR to end at level 30 in a rework.

Not really seeing how these are issues. Every 3-4 levels in ARR you get a new dungeon. After the squish, you'd have one every 1-2 levels, depending on the rounding.

Sastasha: 7 (or even 6 if they wanted)
Tamtara: 7
Copperbell Mines: 8
Halatali: 10
Thousand Maws: 12
Haukke Manor: 14
Brayflox: 16
Sunken Temple: 17
Cutter's Cry: 19
Stone Vigil: 20
Dzemael Darkhold: 22
Aurum Vale: 23
Castrum/Praetorium: 25

The 'XP so easy to earn that you can get to level 10 by just killing random stuff' would still exist, it'd just be displayed as level 5 instead of 10, but it's still the same proportion of your adventure relative to the total of ARR's story

Jobs would get unlocked at level 15, and HW Jobs would start at 15. SB Jobs would start at 25, SHB at 30, EW at 35, and DT at 40. You would unlock PVP at 15. Saying that HW Jobs start at 30, so it'd make sense for ARR to end at 30, is like saying that in the current game, ARR ends at 50, so HW jobs should start at 50. Okay, then the levelling and questlines for those jobs are completely screwed up, as you'd start, not end, with the DRK 50 quest, for example. You'd have no time to marinate on the implications the quest reveals, because you would blitz all of the 30-50 quests back to back in your excitement (as a new player) to get to playing the new Job. Additionally, the same logic would have to be applied to all previous Jobs, making SB's Jobs start at, under your proposed levels, 40, so they can go straight into SB levelling, and that could cause issues with NEW Jobs being added and able to instantly jump into the new expansion content, mainly the amount of congestion it'd cause (eg, 8.0 Jobs starting at the post-squish equivalent of 100, means they can go straight into 8.0 zones and contribute to congestion alongside 'old Jobs')

Also, having 'ARR and HW Jobs are unlocked at 30 so ARR should end at 30' means... not unlocking a Job until you finish ARR? You are effectively suggesting that we should be running something like Stone Vigil, or Aurum Vale, as a Gladiator, Conjurer, etc? Have you considered that you also wouldn't be able to play a SCH at all for the entirety of ARR, locking a Healer player into being able to use only one Healer Job Class (CNJ), for the entire ARR main story? And upon reaching level 30 (presumably happening right around the time they're going to do Castrum/Prae) they get SCH, and then after the patch quests they suddenly get access to another Healer (AST)? Surely it'd make more sense to give them some variety/choice, earlier, as is the case with the level 30/50 requirements for SCH and AST currently (which would become 15/25 with the previous suggested 'halve everything')

Having ARR be 1-30, then expansions be 5 levels, also would change the ratio of how much ARR is in the levelling process, compared to expansions. Having it cap at 25 means ARR takes up the same amount of our levelling journey as currently, having it at 30 would mean we're spending more time in ARR stuff (arguably the worst part of the game)

This is going to be messy.

This is going to make a mess of people wanting to play the old EX and Savage content.

I agree that a level crunch makes sense, it will encourage people to level multiple jobs, but every piece of ilvl gear is going to have to be edited from scratch (unless they just don't care, which checks out)

Anything they do that isn't 'just do another 10 levels and have the new level cap be 110' is going to have some degree of mess to it

ILVL wouldn't need to be touched though, only 'level required to equip'. There'd be no functional difference between 'you can go into TEA at level 80, and it syncs to i475 (gear that is equipped at level 80)' and 'you can go into TEA (post-squish) at level 40, and it syncs to i475 (gear that is equipped at level 40)'.

If anything, halving all level requirements would be less likely to cause issues than the HP/Damage squish we had in SHB

[Rithy255]

I really doubt they will be doing a level crunch personally just going by what they've said in the past (which isn't always reliable)

[TBerry]

I'm not enrtirely sure how they would transition to horizontal progression...

[Themarvin]

Remove the levels entirely and make it class based instead and some few fields where you have to train the job up making it skill based, meaning you would have x amount of points where you then can get skills for job chosen...

Make things like bard perform/blu mage etc. as side things that anyone can learn free of charge.

[Veritas-Ancora]

Anything they do that isn't 'just do another 10 levels and have the new level cap be 110' is going to have some degree of mess to it

ILVL wouldn't need to be touched though, only 'level required to equip'. There'd be no functional difference between 'you can go into TEA at level 80, and it syncs to i475 (gear that is equipped at level 80)' and 'you can go into TEA (post-squish) at level 40, and it syncs to i475 (gear that is equipped at level 40)'.

If anything, halving all level requirements would be less likely to cause issues than the HP/Damage squish we had in SHB

It would be interesting to see what kind of MSQ story cuts they could make down the line if they did the level squish.

[Rithy255]

I'm not enrtirely sure how they would transition to horizontal progression...

A simple one would be a skill points system where they can be allocated to learn a new skill/upgrade but with the nature of ff14 it would be pretty basic and in a way that once you maxxed out you'd be able to get everything

Theirs likely other examples, but I think if they do add horizontal progression which they've been hinting at it won't actually change how jobs just get a few actions each expansion.

[Kailyn_Swiftheart]

You're just gonna prestige back to level 1 so you can get the golden weapon skin, of course.

[Mikey_R]

I think a lot of what I was proposing got misunderstood because I wasn't able to go into too much depth in the first message (and got carried away with the lore, because it is what I like most admittedly). I'll try to clarify what I meant in order:...

I still think you didn't quote get what I was saying, mainly for the actions you obtain in the new arc. However, I believe I have worked out what your intentions are.

To re-iterate, the main question was, if we are level 100, would the new actions and traits obtained in the new arc expand our current kit, or be a new kit entirely. From what I have gathered, it seems to be an expansion on what we already have.

Another thing to point out, I don't think you would find a 'minimum level' per zone as many zones have a wide level range. Central Thanalan for example has enemies from level 1 to level 15, Southern Thanalan goes from low 20s to 50 etc. It would be better to sync to MSQ level.

Now, the main point I want to make. If we grant your system works, could it not be made simpler just by being level 110? You give players a choice when they make a new character to start the new story arc, they get a job boosted to level 100, have a tutorial, then get placed in the story and just level up from there. It would avoid all this potential confusion about how does this system work, how do players interact with each other etc. and if you really wanted, this could be expanded so that you could start from any expansion and get given a one time free job skip to that level. You would have the trainer teach you basics, then I would put the player in an area with a striking dummy for them to freely hit so they can have some practice before they get into the game properly.

I just think making things too complex is unnecessary when a much simpler system gets the job done just as well and wouldn't cause confusion.

[Shistar]

I just think making things too complex is unnecessary when a much simpler system gets the job done just as well and wouldn't cause confusion.

That is fair enough. It was my understanding that you disliked the idea of giving people a free job skip, but I must be confused here.
I just think a plain job skip is lame, but it would be a somewhat effective way of handling dropping new players in a different starting point.