Please do something about dps survavibility in OC

[hydralus]

This is funny in a way. Heals and other mechanics other than DDR being needed is actually good. But that's where it becomes interesting in content that doesn't guarantees certain roles of the trinity to play along the system: in Eureka/Bozja you could just take logograms or lost actions to alleviate your survivability, but here, you can't.
Now if was willing to indulge in some doom posting, watch SE permanently delete survivability requirements like they did in deep dungeons instead of fixing the damn problem...

I swear you mention DDR in every post you make.

[Azurarok]

You'd think that's what phantom jobs should be for, letting you cross role boundaries with different ones. Bozja did it with just 2 buttons and a passive, Variant Dungeons also do it just fine with 2 buttons as well.

[AmiableApkallu]

Heals and other mechanics other than DDR being needed is actually good.

What content in OC does this actually refer to? Every encounter, at least outside of Forked Tower, that I can think of falls into the now-standard mold: moving away from the bad, and healing after unavoidable AoEs.

You'd think that's what phantom jobs should be for, letting you cross role boundaries with different ones.

Each phantom job is the core essence of the job (or someone's idea of it, anyway), not some generic collection buttons from a role.

People keep asking for flavor, but when finally presented with it, I guess no one actually wants it, because flavor means having strengths and weaknesses, things that only you can do and things where you're reliant on others to fill the gap.

[Azurarok]

Each phantom job is the core essence of the job (or someone's idea of it, anyway), not some generic collection buttons from a role.

People keep asking for flavor, but when finally presented with it, I guess no one actually wants it, because flavor means having strengths and weaknesses, things that only you can do and things where you're reliant on others to fill the gap.

That's because I see Field Exploration content as places where the trinity doesn't need to function, unlike standard content where comps are somewhat enforced. Where they introduce it matters

[AmiableApkallu]

That's because I see Field Exploration content as places where the trinity doesn't need to function

Except that's contradicted by your notion of {field operation system} "letting you cross role boundaries." If the trinity doesn't need to function, then there are no role boundaries to be crossed in the first place.

The reality is that the trinity does need to function -- in Eureka, in Bozja, in Occult Crescent. It's simply that in Eureka and Bozja, Lost Actions let you play as one role while cosplaying as a second role at the same time. In Occult Crescent, Phantom Jobs decided to focus on job flavor and not the cosplay.

And let's be real:

• A third iteration of Lost Actions would have seen everyone complaining about lack of creativity, or lack of experimentation, or lack of risk taking, or something. One of the shortcomings with OC is that it takes advantage of Phantom Job flavor only in Forked Tower (in the same way that Lost Actions basically don't matter unless you're in BA or DRS).
• The notion that you need a mere two buttons and a single passive to perform an effective cosplay of a role is a damning indictment of PvE job design. It boggles my mind that anyone would hold that up as good design.

[Supersnow845]

Each phantom job is the core essence of the job (or someone's idea of it, anyway), not some generic collection buttons from a role.

People keep asking for flavor, but when finally presented with it, I guess no one actually wants it, because flavor means having strengths and weaknesses, things that only you can do and things where you're reliant on others to fill the gap.

While I agree with your point (and I know I complain about them a lot) the problem is again tanks. Healers and DPS fighting over being roughly useful to a party and being too squishy solo is pointless when every shred of OC incentivises usage of the tanks.

None of the phantom jobs raise core survivability nor does arcanauts armour (like elemental bonus does in eureka or going 5/2 with bonus magecite). Phantom actions ignore tank mastery’s damage penalty and tanks already do roughly the same damage solo as the physical ranged.

I agree at its core you can’t want identity and variety without downsides to go along with upsides but you also can’t really blame the DPS for feeling forced to need a healer or the healers for feeling forced to run support jobs (like chemist in forked) when the tanks just have literally zero downsides and every upside in OC

[Valence]

What content in OC does this actually refer to? Every encounter, at least outside of Forked Tower, that I can think of falls into the now-standard mold: moving away from the bad, and healing after unavoidable AoEs.

I don't understand your comment. My comment was specifically referring to the unavoidable party wides or damage the OP and you are mentioning. It makes healers still relevant.
And it generates issues in supposedly role agnostic content as the OP mentioned.

I swear you mention DDR in every post you make.

And I will continue to do so, as many others have also been doing!
What are you gonna do about it?

[hydralus]

I don't understand your comment. My comment was specifically referring to the unavoidable party wides or damage the OP and you are mentioning. It makes healers still relevant.
And it generates issues in supposedly role agnostic content as the OP mentioned.



And I will continue to do so, as many others have also been doing!
What are you gonna do about it?

I already called it out, which is about all I can do about it.
What're you going to do when the game design continues as it has been for the past 7 years? Keep paying a subscription to complain? Let me know how that works out for you.

As for the tank/DPS disparity I'm all for them reducing the damage of autoattacks and making most things one-hit kills regardless if you're DPS/tank. Make it like Pilgrim's where tanks are essentially just a crappier DPS.

[Valence]

I already called it out, which is about all I can do about it.
What're you going to do when the game design continues as it has been for the past 7 years? Keep paying a subscription to complain? Let me know how that works out for you.

What, you think I'm only subbed to post there?

As for the tank/DPS disparity I'm all for them reducing the damage of autoattacks and making most things one-hit kills regardless if you're DPS/tank. Make it like Pilgrim's where tanks are essentially just a crappier DPS.

Sounds hella fun.

[AmiableApkallu]

My comment was specifically referring to the unavoidable party wides or damage the OP and you are mentioning. It makes healers still relevant. And it generates issues in supposedly role agnostic content as the OP mentioned.

Is Occult Cresent supposed to be role agnostic? I admit that I might have missed that citation.

That aside, scheduled, unavoidable raidwides are basically "DDR slop" as you like to call it. Holding that up as an example that makes "healers still relevant" is like saying bosses having HP bars makes "DPS still relevant." Technically true, but meaningless in terms of interesting gameplay.