Why is Warrior a healer in all but role?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]

I mentioned on all tanks section that I'd like them to revert all their 40% mits back to their 30% variants. Meaning that PLD will not have the extra barrier (Sentinel), WAR will not have the regen on hit (Vengeance), DRK will not have excog (Shadow Wall), and GNB will not have the increased max HP (Nebula). Just 30%, if that was unclear.

I also almost forgot that DRK's LD now behaves like Bloodwhetting. We could remove the healing aspect but I wouldn't want the DRK to just drop dead if they do not get healed to full before Walking Dead expires. Maybe inflict them other kind of debuff to replace death.

As for GNB comment, the idea is to keep their sustenance relatively the same as its ShB counterpart, which is to say... just 1 charge of 200p Aurora per minute. However I'd like players to have the option to access today's equal HPS degree of double charge on Aurora and Excog on HoC at will if they feel the need for it, but at the cost of their own dps; similar idea to how 6.1 PvP GNB allows them to access Blasting Zone by junctioning a DPS, Aurora by junctioning a Healer, and Nebula by junctioning Tank (or self) - not all 3 are available at any given time. But that entails to changing PvE GNB beyond recognition so I will not say further than that & I hope SE will find better comment from GNB mains or come up with something better themselves.

If it weren't clear by now, I'm going by with ShB tank sustenance profile which was IIRC: PLD/WAR (if they sacrifice dps) >>>>>>>>>> WAR > GNB/DRK (maybe DRK slightly lower) > PLD (if no Clemency).

[Rithy255]

I mentioned on all tanks section that I'd like them to revert all their 40% mits back to their 30% variants. Meaning that PLD will not have the extra barrier (Sentinel), WAR will not have the regen on hit (Vengeance), DRK will not have excog (Shadow Wall), and GNB will not have the increased max HP (Nebula). Just 30%, if that was unclear.

I also almost forgot that DRK's LD now behaves like Bloodwhetting. We could remove the healing aspect but I wouldn't want the DRK to just drop dead if they do not get healed to full before Walking Dead expires. Maybe inflict them other kind of debuff to replace death.

As for GNB comment, the idea is to keep their sustenance relatively the same as its ShB counterpart, which is to say... just 1 charge of 200p Aurora per minute. However I'd like players to have the option to access today's equal HPS degree of double charge on Aurora and Excog on HoC at will if they feel the need for it, but at the cost of their own dps; similar idea to how 6.1 PvP GNB allows them to access Blasting Zone by junctioning a DPS, Aurora by junctioning a Healer, and Nebula by junctioning Tank (or self) - not all 3 are available at any given time. But that entails to changing PvE GNB beyond recognition so I will not say further than that & I hope SE will find better comment from GNB mains or come up with something better themselves.

If it weren't clear by now, I'm going by with ShB tank sustenance profile which was IIRC: PLD/WAR (if they sacrifice dps) >>>>>>>>>> WAR > GNB/DRK (maybe DRK slightly lower) > PLD (if no Clemency).

That's valid Id want them to keep the 40%'s unique "favour" just nerfing them down (Example - Guardian becomes a 30% mit + 500 potency shield) Other tanks would keep the "upgrade" but it would stay 30% and a super nerfed version of it, though in warriors case i think its regen is just not needed.

Also I just find it odd that the "white magic" using tank would have the least amount of sustain, this is a big problem with how shb implemented tank sustain imo, but whatever works for you as it's really more down to personal opinion on what tank deserves sustain or not.

[Daralii]

That's valid Id want them to keep the 40%'s unique "favour" just nerfing them down (Example - Guardian becomes a 30% mit + 500 potency shield) Other tanks would keep the "upgrade" but it would stay 30% and a super nerfed version of it, though in warriors case i think its regen is just not needed.

Also I just find it odd that the "white magic" using tank would have the least amount of sustain, this is a big problem with how shb implemented tank sustain imo, but whatever works for you as it's really more down to personal opinion on what tank deserves sustain or not.

White magic has never exclusively been healing. You can find comparable spells to PLD's damaging and mitigation ones in many FF games, including older versions of XIV, and they don't need the relatively recent self-healing as an additional effect to feel like they're part of the same family.

[Rithy255]

White magic has never exclusively been healing. You can find comparable spells to PLD's damaging and mitigation ones in many FF games, including older versions of XIV, and they don't need the relatively recent self-healing as an additional effect to feel like they're part of the same family.

thematically Paladin has always had healing tied to it, Though white magic has generally been more about healing in general right? I was under the impression wind/areo magic being tied to white magic was more of a ff14 thing. Though im not really a massive final fantasy expert personally.

I also like paladins in general and I understand the JP version is called "Knight" but my ideal version of a "paladin" in any game would have some source of healing, frankly removing it to me would ruin a big reason why i like paladins in the first place.

It's also not like they will ever design a healer that will appeal to me because everything has to be a back line mage healer in ff14, so it's kind of play a paladin who's a tank with strong healing ties or nothing at all for me as the Healing holy knight aesthetic is my main appeal.

[Azurarok]

Stone and Water is usually a black magic spell, Aero started out as White Magic but is usually Blue magic. FFTA's Bishops, who are healers for the Bangaa race, can learn Aero and Water.

I do sometimes wish some jobs can perform a different role instead of pretending to and actually kinda managing two roles at once

[RedLolly]

Yeah, the elemental magic isn't usually associated with White Mage, and was a hanger on from 1.0's unique class Conjurer. The current light magic aesthetic on WHM is actually a much more faithful depiction of past White Mages, however, because the job's usually 95% healing spells, past FF titles either encouraged the player to attach another job's spells to it or vice-versa, or were just on a character that was also another job, as with Garnet and Yuna both also being Summoners.

Paladin is actually one of the earliest examples of a job being one that was designed to equip White Mage skills. FF1 made it the "sub" class of sorts to the Warrior/Tank character if you chose to upgrade it. The heals were weak but it still saw some use.

PLD originally required some CNJ levels and was encouraged to cross class Cure 1 and Raise. A holy knight themed tank with weak heals is PLD's intended design from day 1 of Final Fantasy as a whole.

[Valence]

One thing people haven't been mentioning much is also how tanks are not only self healing machines, which is one thing, but are also perfectly capable healers, which in my opinion, is even worse. And the only reason they're allowed to do that is to ensure that, again, if the healer dies in light parties, then there is still a perfectly capable backup healer on the field. And conveniently, one that cannot die easily.

Even Clemency, which is a fair game and part of PLD's classic identity, has been greatly lowered in cost. Used to cost a kidney - above 2k MP in HW, where tanks at HW launch had barely over 5k MP, and MP certainly didn't regen like today either.

[Reginald_Cain]

People ask to heal more,
Devs remove dps kit from healers and add a bunch of healing buttons they dont need to use because the tank is playing well in casual content.

We need more things to heal than our party if the role wants to improve without ruining the off healer fantasy of jobs like paladin, warrior and red mage. We need more things like dragon heads that need healing, npcs to top off or their death wipes the party.

Tanks healing themselves make sense it's a type of mitigation and fits job fantasy. However if healers feel like they can't fulfill their fantasy then there are infinite other ways to fix that than gutting other roles.

[Supersnow845]

People ask to heal more,
Devs remove dps kit from healers and add a bunch of healing buttons they dont need to use because the tank is playing well in casual content.

We need more things to heal than our party if the role wants to improve without ruining the off healer fantasy of jobs like paladin, warrior and red mage. We need more things like dragon heads that need healing, npcs to top off or their death wipes the party.

Tanks healing themselves make sense it's a type of mitigation and fits job fantasy. However if healers feel like they can't fulfill their fantasy then there are infinite other ways to fix that than gutting other roles.

Can someone explain to me how Lifesteal and barriers are “warrior fantasy”

Are warriors cosplaying malenia or something

And if the fantasy is being an “off healer” that should imply they are worse healers than the healers which part of the problem is that in casual content they are better healers. Like let’s say we used this NPC idea, WAR could just nascent flash it. Why does nascent flash even heal both anyway

[Reginald_Cain]

Can someone explain to me how Lifesteal and barriers are “warrior fantasy”

Are warriors cosplaying malenia or something

And if the fantasy is being an “off healer” that should imply they are worse healers than the healers which part of the problem is that in casual content they are better healers. Like let’s say we used this NPC idea, WAR could just nascent flash it. Why does nascent flash even heal both anyway

I can't believe you need this explained but fine. WARRIORS bathe in the blood of their enemies. They use rage and adrenaline to ignore pain, and fuel the inner beasts magic inside them which in turn siphons the residual life force/aether from the carnage into healing for the warriors wounds. Same explanation for the barriers but let's be real, what good tank design would be absent of a shield ability? While not all jobs are solely focused on spells and magic ALL jobs are magic infused via their soul crystal.

And Warrior is worse at healing a party of 8 than a healer. Same with every tank. The idea that tanks make healers absolutely irrelevant is incredibly hyperbolic