Paladin: Reworking Niche Skills

[Valence]

Replace "Mitigation" by "% based Mitigation" then. People tend to use that shortcut all the time, apologies for that.

[Mikey_R]

The differences are super super minor though. We're talking about something on the level of 1 heal of difference (and oGCD at that) ever 180s, and the current 180s skills already are slightly different in this regard.

Every 2 minutes if we are talking about just the 40%, but the initial idea was a tank that had a pure HP increase model, ie. every cooldown would be a variation of 'increase max HP to survive', which would then hit their 90 seconds and even the short cooldown mitigation. Even further if Rampart were to be replaced to be more job specific. I would include the invuln, but I don't see how an effective HP increase could achieve the same effect, not in a sensible way anyway.

If all of these can effectively reduce the healing required by the healer, you then have a worse problem that what we have now. Remember, this is all assuming the tank has a way to help heal back the damage sustained instead of a HP recovery buff. This could work, but 40% from the tank would be way too much, especially when combined with the fact you get a free heal from the HP increase itself.

Because I'm having too much fun with a simple spreadsheet, a few different scenarios, if the HP increase doesn't have a self heal (but keeps the HP recovery increase), then you need to heal before the hit and then after, but you will heal the same total amount as the % mitigation tank, unless one of those heals falls outside the HP recovery increase, then you will fall short, if the HP recovery increase is not there, then with the heal before and the heal after, you will fall short of getting back to max HP. In the situation I used (which is the same as the one in post #55), you fall short by 10% of the tanks max HP, so, if you wanted a tank that increased it's HP to mitigate damage, and didn't give it a self heal or a HP recovery increase, you would need the tank to make up only 10% of their max HP from another cooldown to balance things out.

So, 10% is a more reasonable value to aim for to make things more balanced in this overly simplistic example, rather than the 40% that you proposed. Remember, we don't want to make healers obsolete.

I should also mention, if we assume the HP increase does come with a self heal to match the HP increase, there is a scenario where it is just free mitigation with no input from a healer required and that is when the damage received is less than the total HP increase as, once the buff wears off, your HP will just go back to it's baseline. But I don't envisage that scenario happening in any content where it would matter and is more of a novelty.

So many weird situations that need to be taken into account for a tank that solely relies upon HP increases for its mitigation. It would make it feel very different to heal though. To be clear, I am not against the idea, I am just throwing around these scenarios that could come up and trying to make things a bit more balanced.

[Shurrikhan]

So, 10% is a more reasonable value to aim for to make things more balanced in this overly simplistic example, rather than the 40% that you proposed. Remember, we don't want to make healers obsolete.

Tbh, inter-role balance and intra-balance are basically never worth considering together. The ONLY reason to do so is in considering the balancing point between (comparatively)"scaled" and (comparatively) "flat" values, since those can only be balanced under a certain expected intake.

Pick a target sustain requirement (pre-mitigated damage to be done to the tanks), then tune flats (including tank self-heals) against the scalars for that level of intake. If it makes healers irrelevant is only a concern by which to nerf ALL tank sustain, never just tank self-heals.

Will most tanks likely need to offer a mixture of flats and scalars? Yes. Absolutely. Else flats simply rule low-intake content and get avoided in all else. But that can still be diverse enough even without arbitrarily nerfing one set just because their sustain happens to be a bit more obvious in its bouncing of the health bar.

P.S. For Warrior, specifically, one option is just to offer a higher initial HP pool and a bit of natural scaled bit based on how much in %HP the hit would normally reduce them, to offer additional gauge based on intake, and to offer some fading overlappable benefit on gauge spending, such that they seem to "rise to the challenge" and can scale accordingly even if having mostly flat sustain via each ability. That said, I don't see why flats would necessarily be more Warrior-like than scaled hits.

there is a scenario where it is just free mitigation with no input from a healer required and that is when the damage received is less than the total HP increase as, once the buff wears off, your HP will just go back to it's baseline

Again, that's just a matter of flats (same as a fat TBN with a bit more duration to nonetheless ensure it's fully consumed) and, if ever advantaged over scaled skills in a majority of real content, too small a sustain requirement in general.