Paladin: Reworking Niche Skills

[Rithy255]

Snip.

I think sure you can have war have cooldowns that strictly increase its health at a baseline to replace mitigations but it would be kinda just weird to have a tank that has 6 billion hp while the other tanks have Mitigation.

Let me be clear though I'm not opposed to warrior having more base HP, I think it should have a 20% Max health passive, while its mitigations are weaker (but still present in a form) so that it does have more of a separate identity without just insane HP increases to match the ever increasing Mitigation tanks have been getting.

I think Warrior having a Larger health pool at base and choosing between strong self heals or mitigation (such as old nascent vs old raw int) would actually make the tank more dynamic then having cooldowns that only serve the purpose to increase wars base health, as that pratically falls under the same use case as shields.

Warriors Base health being higher should in part serve as a way to make the mitigations less effective, Warrior could get away with having a weaker 20% and 40% if it were too, I do not think they should be replaced with exlusive hp gains, I also think If you add some defensive complexity in situational choices between Mitigation and self healing (This is why I like a Dark knight that could mitigate both magic/physical but it would be a choice and would depend on fight knowledge, similarily a warrior would have to mitigate, but require healing in high damage tank buster situations, but also could self heal through autos and handle themselves in some situations).

I think in order to have tanks be more unique they need stronger niches and differences in how their mitigation kits feel, You do need all tanks to compete at a baseline while doing this as you can't have one tank just be absolutely awful in a piece of content just because it can't mitigate a certain thing Example: Old PLD that couldn't block Magic mitigation, it felt awful (so I've heard anyway I didn't play in HW lol)

For me I think some similarities must exist, sure a Warrior with a mass amount of HP extension cooldowns could work I just don't think it would actually make the job anymore interesting, rather then having a active mitigation vs heal choice in your own kit; I also think tanks like PLD should become a strong support choice, DRK as I've said should switch between magic/physical, GNB can be a slightly higher dps maximiser job Ect. I think having more active instances where tanks should protect a party member and more rotational complexity alongside some more kit diversity is the direction to take tanks without making them feel awful to play.

A side note is I think role action cooldowns like Rampart, reprisal and even low blow should become job skills instead, even if they remain the same or very similar I think making these cooldowns look more unique would actually help a lot, I do hope they could add some small benefit, Lets say PLDs reprisal instead is a 60s CD 10s dur aoe mitigation on the party for 10% and increases healing by 5%, Drk gets reprisal (cuz it used to be its skill), that lasts for 15s instead of 10s, Warrior gets some intimidating Shout that maybe reduces enemy damage for 15-20% but is on a longer cooldown like 90s (so wacky and different) But you get the idea right? Role Actions serve no purpose is the main point, Even fundamental skills should have a unique animation depending on the job role actions will not make sense ever unless they have some level of customizability in a lot of cases it just looks odd rampart doesn't even look good on most tanks because it was designed as a PLD skill, same goes for reprisal.

[Mikey_R]

Exactly.

When a Gunbreaker presses a 40% mitigation to get +67% eHP and only need 60% of the normal amount of healing given their new eHP, that also gives the numbers for Warrior:
- Buff gives +67% max HP, starting as healed.
- Self-healing provides 40% of total healing needed given the new HP pool, so that healers have to cover the 60% as above.

It's not rocket science, and it's not like plenty games haven't provided self-healing based tanking, or even dodge tanking, or whatever.

If you have the defensive give HP rather than mitigation, you have to be aware of the fact that, once the buff runs out, it gets rid of the extra HP, which means you don't need to fully heal off the damage. That 40% healing from Warrior could be all that is needed, or means the healer only has to put in 10% of the healing to keep the Warrior topped up once the buff ends.

Whilst we can compare eHP values and make them equivalent, we also have to take into account what happens when the buff is used (which is just a self heal over max HP) and also when the buff disappears (current HP doesn't change, but max does).

In theory, you could change it so that the % of HP remaining with the buff is kept the same once the buff falls off, but I also suspect there will be other considerations to take into account.

[Shurrikhan]

I mean, "increases current and maximum HP" is just a barrier that's rechargeable instead of potentially nullifying a debuff (still depends on whether 0ing the damage would nullify it, which is case by case, and less common this side of EW's first expert dungeon [Smileton, I think it was called?]), but I don't think losing the excess at end of duration is that punishing as long as any normal barrier would have long since been fully drained anyways. It'd at worst be like a regular barrier against an attack whose debuff can't be nullified even if 0ed.

Compare TBN and ToB (WAR's Thrill of Battle)... if ToB had the same CD and same % of HP.

[theunhappypotato]

please leave paladin alone its fine as is