Paladin: Reworking Niche Skills

[Valence]

Sunie, idk how to tell you this, but... with the exception of hard-coded Hallowed Ground exceptions, Cover "already" works like PvP guardian aside the "rush to side". It fully redirects damage to the Paladin and uses the Paladin's mitigation to reduce the damage.

That's literally what PvP Guardian is based on.

I was literally alluding to Hallowed and the range yes. But to be fair no range means limitations to play around which is also good in my book. I don't think cover right now is bad though, I've seen it used a lot in prog (or even fucky reclears) by PLDs to keep important people alive.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I was literally alluding to Hallowed and the range yes. But to be fair no range means limitations to play around which is also good in my book. I don't think cover right now is bad though, I've seen it used a lot in prog (or even fucky reclears) by PLDs to keep important people alive.

Fair enough on the Hallowed bit. Range though, it has the same 20y activation range without the forced movement and the tether goes to a maximum of 20y as well, longer than PvP.

That said, Cover "really" should get rid of the Oath cost or re-institute the 20% mitigation from Lv66 Enhanced Cover they removed in Shadowbringers to warrant the Oath cost. The 2min cooldown is a hefty restriction as is and a lot of modern mechanics can screw you over for covering too.

[ThorinG]

Replace Cover by pvp Guardian - with the pvp behavior as in, your mitigation/invuln blocks the damage. I know this would cause some exploits in pve, but what you call exploits, I call clever use of the kit and identity of the job. Design around it.

I think it will be interesting to see that, but referencing my suggestions i believe it will be a better fit to replace (Full Cover) with (PVP Guardian), since my reworked (Cover) is mainly for accumulating block stacks while providing passive mitigation to others.

[Rithy255]

Okay lets go over the changes
Shield Bash - Assuming this is a damage gain or ogcd I'm all for this.
Shield smite/Cover/Full Cover - I dont really think PLD needs a passive Mitigation on a target like sage kardia, I think current cover just needs way more utility and reason to be used (also take it off gauge)
1, 2, 3 Changes - I disagree unless we add more combo finishers (like old goring blade was) It just makes PLD's rotation more bland, The only time I will agree with making a 1, 2, 3 auto combo is if it actually is to advanced the complexity of the job and is still optional.
Intervention/Holy Sheltron Merge - I 100% agree with this, Intervention is pretty much "holy sheltron for a friend" with a way more lame animation, Theirs also still ways we can make it so pld can holy sheltron self and a ally which is the only current reason to keep intervention as it is.
Holy circle - making it a upgrade for holy spirit would be nice if it was still at ranged and did cleave damage as a upgrade, saves space aswell.

I think I'd want to add more to a paladin rework personally but I agree with somewhat changing up some of the niche skills like Cover and shield bash even if I don't 100% agree with the direction.

[Mercury_Grey]

Honestly the 123 beign merged would free up a lot of hot bar space, but right now my hotbar i like how it is. Barely ahve to touch it but once an expansion or so. Which kudos to SE for not trying to make every job have the same amount o fbuttons. The shield i wish you could block during cover. Or if they go this route. "Hitting enemies with shield smite reduces cover cooldown by x amount of seconds" Which would make you want to use shield smite more and actually rewrds PLDs who use it smartly

[Burmecia]

No to no.1. I like being able to stunlock thing full 10 sec.

Other suggestions are ok.

[Brandr]

IMO, button merge should be a thing for all jobs and as a tool for all classes and for every skill, not only combos, and the player should be able what they want to merge and/or unmerge.

As for the other suggestions, I don't like them at all.
I don't agree with the "button bloat" argument, and I say this as a playstation and joystick player. I think we have enough (cross)hotbars to use.

[Carighan]

IMO, button merge should be a thing for all jobs and as a tool for all classes and for every skill, not only combos, and the player should be able what they want to merge and/or unmerge.

As for the other suggestions, I don't like them at all.
I don't agree with the "button bloat" argument, and I say this as a playstation and joystick player. I think we have enough (cross)hotbars to use.

Yeah the way they did the stuff in Dawntrail makes me hopeful there. Lots of auto-comboing follow-ups, but it's up to the player whether they want to use that or not.

That really ought to be the way most things are done. 1-2-3 combos, all that kind of stuff, you can have them on the same button if you want that, or not if you prefer them separate.

[Rithy255]

IMO, button merge should be a thing for all jobs and as a tool for all classes and for every skill, not only combos, and the player should be able what they want to merge and/or unmerge.

As for the other suggestions, I don't like them at all.
I don't agree with the "button bloat" argument, and I say this as a playstation and joystick player. I think we have enough (cross)hotbars to use.

The main reason why people bring up button bloat is because instead of having skills like Shield bash that you almost never use you could have skills that actually get used if you did some pruning or merging

Lets say, HS/Intervention become one ability, 2s recast so you can still double mit, Holy circle became a upgrade and AOE cleave for holy spirit, Low blow and interject were merged to Stun but if the Stun failed it was cause a interrupt, Shield bash was either removed or a actual part of the kit you use. (I personally think cover just needs to be off gauge and maybe have something tied to it, clemency should stay)

You save a lot of skill space without fundamentally ruining a job, where you can add interesting rotational or even utility skills, my issue isn't bloat it's more that this Bloat is used as a way to hold back jobs, if the devs only want to give us upgrades its likely because they think we already have too much skills, so the best ideal is that we make space without removing anything core.

[PyurBlue]

Lets say, HS/Intervention become one ability, 2s recast so you can still double mit, Holy circle became a upgrade and AOE cleave for holy spirit, Low blow and interject were merged to Stun but if the Stun failed it was cause a interrupt

I've heard the Low Blow/Interject idea before but I don't like it at all. Stun being something that can be resisted means you don't want to throw it out needlessly (though it's not like the game punishes you much for it) and that alone warrants keeping the two abilities separate. It gives more control to the player and a small opportunity to workout optimized usage for each.

Making everything AoE is also something I'd like to avoid. It kills 2 target rotations, the latest of which is M10 where depending on how the enemies are positioned, you have to think about whether you want to use a 1 target or 2 target rotation. There are also a handful of situations where you'd want to avoid hitting things, especially as tank. A few alliance raid adds and some dual raid bosses require separation. Those are interesting mechanics that need to be included more instead of thrown out.