Whatever happened to Hard mode remixes of dungeons?

[RedLolly]

I just kind of miss the concept and it's been gone for a few expansions now. The devs just never bother exploring the concept of needing to return to an older area for something. There's also the joke that Brute Abominator is basically Aurum Vale Extreme with the design and battle mechanics, but genuinely some of those attacks absolutely do feel like they could've been conceived for a level 100, hard mode of Aurum Vale.

I think it's mostly because I love both versions of Lost City of Amdapor and Great Gubal Library so much.

I would like to see this idea come back once in a while again.

[Hyperia]

Insufficient developer resources, as they are making other content and are no longer allowed to work 60+ hour work weeks.

[Jeeqbit]

The "hard mode" versions were always the "optional, sidequest" dungeons.

In ARR, they made 3 dungeons per patch.

In Heavensward, they made 2 dungeons per patch, 1 of which was normally an MSQ dungeon.

In Stormblood, they alternated, making 1 dungeon some patches and 2 in others, so they could reinvest the resources elsewhere.

In Shadowbringers, they announced they were no longer going to produce multiple dungeons, because they had reached a point where there were plenty of them and obviously achieved their goal of there being "lots of dungeons", and would reinvest the resources elsewhere. Due to Duty Support, every dungeon thereafter was always an MSQ dungeon.

The only exceptions to all this, of course, are the 2 sidequests dungeons we get every expansion, which come with the expansion itself and variant dungeons and deep dungeons which work differently, but generally all these tend to explore lore that didn't get looked at deeply before.

Anyway, I never considered the hard mode versions to be actually hard. Especially from Heavensward onwards. If you removed the (Hard) tag a person would never guess it was supposed to be harder than MSQ dungeons.

[Raikai]

Hard Mode was a mislabel imo.

There's not hard about those dungeons, they had the same difficulty as any other level cap dungeon of their expansion. Of course, a "hardmode" level 50 Satasha will be harder than the level 15, that's a bit obvious, but beyond the point.

I feel that a proper label would be "Revisited", because isn't even the same exact dungeon for most of the cases.

That being said, they could revitalize the label "Hard Mode" as actual hard mode versions of each dungeon. Since Criterion will be boss-focused now, this could be where we play around hard trash packs, idk...

[AmiableApkallu]

I feel like earlier (ARR) dungeons are something akin to, "Here's a place in the world where things might happen, and where the MSQ might happen to take you by." As the WoL, you stop by, take care of the problem of the moment, but... maybe more problems crop up later.

Newer dungeons are much more akin to, "Here's where the MSQ happens." The only problem to take care of is the one presented by the MSQ, and it's all neatly tied off when the MSQ is done with it. There's nothing left to remix.

[Shistar]

I feel like earlier (ARR) dungeons are something akin to, "Here's a place in the world where things might happen, and where the MSQ might happen to take you by." As the WoL, you stop by, take care of the problem of the moment, but... maybe more problems crop up later.

Newer dungeons are much more akin to, "Here's where the MSQ happens." The only problem to take care of is the one presented by the MSQ, and it's all neatly tied off when the MSQ is done with it. There's nothing left to remix.

This is how I feel as well... I find it a bit sad that we've lost that sense of other stories going on around us, which may or may not coincide with ours, that sense of adventure is lost.

[RedLolly]

I guess my question is more, why has the MSQ given us a reason to revisit an older area with a "Hard Mode" dungeon.

Actually, Meso Terminal was pretty much just Alexandria (Hard). If it had been labeled as such, nothing in the design would be changed and it'd be exactly how most previous hard variants were designed.

[Raikai]

I guess my question is more, why has the MSQ given us a reason to revisit an older area with a "Hard Mode" dungeon.

Actually, Meso Terminal was pretty much just Alexandria (Hard). If it had been labeled as such, nothing in the design would be changed and it'd be exactly how most previous hard variants were designed.

I think it's just a directive, honestly.

It feels a bit weird for it to happen in the MSQ, as it gives a bit of a recycle feel. We already 'revisit' the dungeon as a pseudo-questing zone sometimes (e.g. Troia), which is fine.

But I think returning as an optional dungeon is really nice when done like in Pharos Sirius, where you actually visit a different route than the one you know. And the place tells a different story to expand upon the location's lore.

[Reimmi]

I feel like earlier (ARR) dungeons are something akin to, "Here's a place in the world where things might happen, and where the MSQ might happen to take you by." As the WoL, you stop by, take care of the problem of the moment, but... maybe more problems crop up later.

Newer dungeons are much more akin to, "Here's where the MSQ happens." The only problem to take care of is the one presented by the MSQ, and it's all neatly tied off when the MSQ is done with it. There's nothing left to remix.

I wish we'd go back to that tbh
The msq is so predictable because the dungeons can't be side quests anymore, same with trials
I'd love if we couldn't see that "wow, i'm level x3, that big monster is the next trial"

[Alicie]

Nobody really cares about hard dungeons because there is no particular valuable reward tied up to them.
We all know well that SE won't add meaningful rewards because they feel need to push players towards mog station purchases, and we all know well that players won't give a damn about something that offers no rewards (just look at q40)