We don't need them anymore.

[Selsix]

I've played nearly all of them. Yes, it is. It is the only MMO that caters specifically to that subset of players at the cost of alienating endgamers woth poor encounter designs that are literally all variations of, "circle on floor, line on floor, all the floor except one spot, half the floor, other half the floor."

You cannot seriously believe giving us more glam options is coming at the cost of encounter design. That doesn't even make a little sense. If you're unhappy with the encounter design it is completely fair to complain about that, but to say it's the fault of people chasing glam is an absolutely wild claim.

[Shipp]

You cannot seriously believe giving us more glam options is coming at the cost of encounter design. That doesn't even make a little sense. If you're unhappy with the encounter design it is completely fair to complain about that, but to say it's the fault of people chasing glam is an absolutely wild claim.

What I am saying is XIV is the only MMO I have ever played where so much of the population only cares about playing dress up as opposed to actually progressing content. Eso is a close second. That's due to factors of SE dropping the ball with endgame encounters and constantly caving to the players who whine that everything is too hard and they are entitled to old retired rewards.

[Selsix]

What I am saying is XIV is the only MMO I have ever played where so much of the population only cares about playing dress up as opposed to actually progressing content. Eso is a close second. That's due to factors of SE dropping the ball with endgame encounters and constantly caving to the players who whine that everything is too hard and they are entitled to old retired rewards.

There's more to MMOs than endgame content man. I've been playing MMOs since 2003 and I have never once chased endgame PvE content. Some people like to PvP, some like to just socialize, some want to gather/craft and just make money, some want to decorate if the game has housing, some like to roleplay, some just want to do quests, and yes some want to play dress up. Regardless of this however, it is not the fault of those players that you find the endgame content lacking. There is ZERO reason why SE cannot cater to both the hardcore players -and- the casual ones. Besides if you ask me, it's not that the game is lacking in hardcore content that's the problem and instead that we are lacking in midcore content seeing as the only PvE content XIV has is "clear in 1-2 tries" and then jumps straight to "wipe 50 times for maybe a single clear" and then again to the masochism that is Ultimate. We are getting off-topic here, however.

[Shipp]

There's more to MMOs than endgame content man. I've been playing MMOs since 2003 and I have never once chased endgame PvE content. Some people like to PvP, some like to just socialize, some want to gather/craft and just make money, some want to decorate if the game has housing, some like to roleplay, some just want to do quests, and yes some want to play dress up. Regardless of this however, it is not the fault of those players that you find the endgame content lacking. There is ZERO reason why SE cannot cater to both the hardcore players -and- the casual ones. Besides if you ask me, it's not that the game is lacking in hardcore content that's the problem and instead that we are lacking in midcore content seeing as the only PvE content XIV has is "clear in 1-2 tries" and then jumps straight to "wipe 50 times for maybe a single clear" and then again to the masochism that is Ultimate. We are getting off-topic here, however.

SE constantly claims resources are limited for XIV. So yes, spending resources on crap to add to the glam shop, going back on their word and allocating money on bringing back rewards they lied about being limited-time only, could be spent on, oh I don't know, maybe paying the intern for a week to figure out how to make all headgear work on Viera and Hrothgar, putting more effort into appeasing the people actually unsubbed to get them back, etc.

The problem is this game offers really nothing progression wise outside of snoozefest versus instant wipe mechanics. That's all they have ever really been able to come up with in this game. There are no unique mechanics they come up with for the fights. I just got to ShB the other day after finishing SB, and the encounter design is all the same from when I actually did do endgame in ARR and HW.

This ties into the glam thing. No, there is room for both hardcore and casual players. The problem here is that due to the bad endgame this game has, those players tend to go to other games that offer better experiences in that department. Those people are a very large chunk of any MMO's population. Constantly throwing them and the mid core people bones leaves only the super casual players that only care about superficial fluff like glams. This in turn ends up hurting the game since anyone looking for endgame content will pass on it since there are much better options. Then you have a ton of people subbed who can't clear content to get their new glam stuff out of endgame, and instead of waiting for the next expac when they can do it unsynced, they demand the content get made easier. This is our predicament with standard difficulty being a snoozefest for anyone competent, along with all jobs being even easier than they originally were.

[FudoMyoo]

Contrary to what OP thinks, most of those wanting the rewards back aren't asking for them to be mailed directly to them on patch day, I am rightly expecting them to be tethered to Ranked in some way, and would NOT want to see them turned into basic vendor items you can get with marks or even trophy crystals.

Very much this. Thank you.

[ZohShia]

OP's particular choice of vernacular already clues us into what manner of MMO player he is. Being proud of one's accomplishments is one thing, but between calling the upcoming returned sets "the fake ones" and insinuating the reason they are returning is because their lessers "whined and moaned til the devs gave in". Just.... how very ick.

The very premise of this debate reeks of old guard WoW/LoL toxic capital G gamer dudebro vibes to me.

[KolaPepper]

The problem is this game offers really nothing progression wise outside of snoozefest versus instant wipe mechanics. That's all they have ever really been able to come up with in this game. There are no unique mechanics they come up with for the fights. I just got to ShB the other day after finishing SB, and the encounter design is all the same from when I actually did do endgame in ARR and HW.

This ties into the glam thing. No, there is room for both hardcore and casual players. The problem here is that due to the bad endgame this game has, those players tend to go to other games that offer better experiences in that department. Those people are a very large chunk of any MMO's population. Constantly throwing them and the mid core people bones leaves only the super casual players that only care about superficial fluff like glams. This in turn ends up hurting the game since anyone looking for endgame content will pass on it since there are much better options. Then you have a ton of people subbed who can't clear content to get their new glam stuff out of endgame, and instead of waiting for the next expac when they can do it unsynced, they demand the content get made easier. This is our predicament with standard difficulty being a snoozefest for anyone competent, along with all jobs being even easier than they originally were.

Seems unreasonable to say that the fight design has no unique mechanics due to the attention put on glam changes when you haven't even tried dawntrail's endgame fights. Of course shadowbringers fights will be less engaging compared to the latest fights that released in dawntrail since the current job design is vastly different from when shb released. I assume you've at least watched the savage arcadian fights from the recent raid series to believe that its doomsday for endgame raiders? How about quantum 40? Despite the rewards criticism and tab targeting complaints, I've heard the fight is very engaging. FRU of course came out in dawntrail as well. Seen any of the new Extreme fights? Even the new criterion that drops in 7.4 along with the new raid tier seems promising based on Mr.Ozma's (a talented ff14 fight design dev) twitter posts.

If you are talking about the frequency of engaging endgame fights getting released I could see where you are coming from but to speak on the complexity of endgame without experiencing it yourself or even just watching a vid of it seems unreasonable to act like you know for a fact that fight design is getting worse due to the devs focusing too much of casual players.

[Shipp]

but between calling the upcoming returned sets "the fake ones" and insinuating the reason they are returning is because their lessers "whined and moaned til the devs gave in". Just.... how very ick.

The very premise of this debate reeks of old guard WoW/LoL toxic capital G gamer dudebro vibes to me.

He isn't wrong about that, though. It's hard not to be frustrated at SE going back on their word. Personally, after playing XI, I've been used to it for 20 some odd years now.

[Shipp]

Seems unreasonable to say that the fight design has no unique mechanics due to the attention put on glam changes when you haven't even tried dawntrail's endgame fights. Of course shadowbringers fights will be less engaging compared to the latest fights that released in dawntrail since the current job design is vastly different from when shb released. I assume you've at least watched the savage arcadian fights from the recent raid series to believe that its doomsday for endgame raiders? How about quantum 40? Despite the rewards criticism and tab targeting complaints, I've heard the fight is very engaging. FRU of course came out in dawntrail as well. Seen any of the new Extreme fights? Even the new criterion that drops in 7.4 along with the new raid tier seems promising based on Mr.Ozma's (a talented ff14 fight design dev) twitter posts.

If you are talking about the frequency of engaging endgame fights getting released I could see where you are coming from but to speak on the complexity of endgame without experiencing it yourself or even just watching a vid of it seems unreasonable to act like you know for a fact that fight design is getting worse due to the devs focusing too much of casual players.

I love how you have just assumed I have not watched any of the fights and wasted two paragraphs fighting that strawman.

I have. And I only came back to the game due to a friend wanting me to and to experience the Nier and XI raids. This game has never and probably will never have fun and engaging endgame fights. Having stricter timing on the mechanics is nothing new. But it seems unreasonable for someone who joined in 2025 and has a grand total of 4 posts (totally not a troll alt) to know about the launch of Titan Hard mode when most people couldn't clear it due to server update tics and how people had to learn to move before the ability even began showing on screen by having someone in the group on voice chat calling out what was about to happen.

See, I can play the assumption game too!

[KolaPepper]

I love how you have just assumed I have not watched any of the fights and wasted two paragraphs fighting that strawman.

I have. And I only came back to the game due to a friend wanting me to and to experience the Nier and XI raids. This game has never and probably will never have fun and engaging endgame fights. Having stricter timing on the mechanics is nothing new. But it seems unreasonable for someone who joined in 2025 and has a grand total of 4 posts (totally not a troll alt) to know about the launch of Titan Hard mode when most people couldn't clear it due to server update tics and how people had to learn to move before the ability even began showing on screen by having someone in the group on voice chat calling out what was about to happen.

See, I can play the assumption game too!

The difference is that I never claimed to have played the game all those years ago. You however claimed to know for a fact that endgame is getting affected by the focus on the casual playerbase even though you never experienced them yourself. So yea it seemed odd for someone still in shadowbringers to comment on dawntrail end game. Also I dont normally browse the forums so of course I don't have a large post count. No idea what that has to do with what I said though tbh. You can call anyone that disagrees with you a troll if that helps you feel better but all of my responses have been pretty clear.