How powerful are the Elementals post-Calamity?

[Shistar]

Hello! Summoning all lore mages!

I've been doing a little bit of research into the Elementals for something I'm writing. I noticed the fear of the wrath of the Elementals was way more present in 1.0, where the Greenwrath, people getting abducted by the forest and treants (+ other forest creatures) attacking settlements was an everyday thing. Holding rituals to appease them was part of their culture and everyday routine.
From what I remember during my MSQ playthrough none of this is barely mentioned, if at all. If anything, it is mentioned that pre-Calamity, they're strong enough to strip a Padjal of their powers completely (EW tank role quest). Do you think they'd still be able to do this?

We know the Elementals used a lot of their power to shield as much of the Twelveswood as they could during the Calamity. So we're left to assume that they're either not powerful enough to go berserk on Gridanians like that anymore, or they're suddenly a lot more chill about things? I'm just confused here.
Do we have any information on what they can and can't do nowadays?


TL;DR: I'm looking for examples (preferably with some sort of source I can reference) of Elementals using their powers post-Calamity, to get an idea of what they can and cannot do for something I'm writing.

[Anonymoose]

Personally, I feel like the answer would - as it often does in FFXIV - lie somewhere in between. A lot of FFXIV lore works in generalities whereby exceptions can exist.

We know that the Calamity did in fact dramatically weaken the elementals in general. Whatever of the elementals' actions depended on their sustained, systemic power is off the table - hence the sudden reappearance of things like the ruins of Amdapor, which they were hiding.

But could an elemental or a few specific elementals recover enough power to pull off some of the stuff they used to do? Probably, if the plot wanted it bad enough.


As for examples, that's tougher. In most content in the game they just whisper. They've appeared in instances a couple times if I remember right, so you could infer that they might tip the scales of a limited conflict. They helped fish Y'shtola out of the lifestream and lured Odin to our confrontation. Mother Mionne was confident that if the Guardian Tree came to harm, they would still be powerful enough to cause chaos in their rage, but when the sentinels in Amdapor came to life, they didn't band together and shut them down even in a brief, sustained outburst -- they fled.

My guess is that most of them are spending what little energy they have on maintaining the Twelveswood and that exceptions would be brief and require explanation ... but it could be done.

[Shistar]

Thank you, Anonymoose. This leads me to believe that, following the Calamity, they've spent enough power to only be able to comfortably communicate with the Hearers and padjals. A lot of what happened since the Calamity would have them going nuclear if they had the power they used back then...


Do you happen to remember more about their appearances post-Calamity?


Edit for context: What I am specifically after, for now, is to see if the Elementals could be pushed to pull another Ea-Sura-Supin. I don't think they can, but I wanted to make sure before I end up having some questionable events in my little writing project lol

[Cleretic]

While Anonymoose covered every sort of 'basic' answer to the question, a factor I think is generally underdiscussed on this isn't power level, but just raw quantity. The way that the Elementals were written, especially in 1.0, suggested that we had a 'one in every tree, rock and stream' situation. If that's true, anything that 'an Elemental' or 'the Elementals' did was the result of dozens, to hundreds, to possibly thousands all working in concert.

I feel like, in that case, the conversation might change a bit. Because in that case, maybe de-Padjali-ing a Padjali was once maybe a dozen-or-so Elemental job, but these days it'd probably be a whole forest deal.

EDIT:

Do you happen to remember more about their appearances post-Calamity?

This part I can answer, though. In terms of direct, physical appearances, we've got one solo duty in the Conjurer questline; the rest are all abstracts, and in many cases it gets hard to tell if something definitely is the Elementals, but we have the Y'shtola revival in Heavensward, and the Endwalker tank role quest that you obviously already have experience with. I'd also specifically pinpoint Stormblood White Mage as something to look at, because while I don't think there was direct Elemental action there was definitely some adjacent stuff going on... and I weirdly have to bring up Stormblood Leatherworker as a prominent exception, because that's a case where the Elementals are absolutely explicitly not involved.

There's also the 'proto-Elemental', as I'd call it, in the Elpis yellow quest 'Woken by the Familiar', where we learn about their creation magic concept precursor, which looks the same but is essentially just a telepathic familiar concept. There's not much to go off there for your question, it's just evidence that they started in a very different place.

There's also Eureka to add in; Eureka has Elementals, that use the same model as the Twelveswood ones, who just hang around and give you buffs if you get close. They're also definitely not just a gameplay conceit, because Absolute Virtue is an Elemental that got possessed by one of the Eurekan weapons. Anything further on that subject goes into speculation, though.

[Shistar]

Thank you, Cleretic! Looks like I've got lots of stuff to check out before I get to writing in detail.

I did always consider that their powers were significantly diminished because many of them got straight up obliterated by Dalamud's remains... though when you bring it to light like this it highlights how important this is to the discussion. The Shroud lost thousands of Elementals during the Calamity, most likely. I'm surprised this isn't something that any Padjal bring up (that I can remember), but I guess Elementals don't quite mourn their kin like we do.


About Eureka: It was my understanding that Elementals dwell everywhere in the world, it's just that the sheer concentration of life (and how ancient some of it is) in the Shroud allows them to join forces more effectively and have a say on what goes on in their forest up until the Calamity obliterated entire parts of it and the Elementals living there. The Isle of Val is very interesting because there's some messed up stuff going on with the aether there, but I'm not quite sure what would push the Elementals to go through the trouble of physically manifesting and to give us helpful effects if we happen to cross paths with them. Though didn't they also use to appear in the Shroud in 1.0? They were lvl90+ or something like that, am I getting my wires crossed here? I assume the ones chilling in Eureka are there for similar reasons Shroud Elementals used to hang out in the forest sometimes..?


I think it's safe to assume they aren't taking any extreme measures against mortals by themselves any time soon, especially if it's not a huge problem, which is enough for me to get some of my writing done.

[RedLolly]

I was under the impression "Kami" were also basically elementals in everything but name, with Geomancy serving the same purpose as Conjury.

[Cleretic]

About Eureka: It was my understanding that Elementals dwell everywhere in the world, it's just that the sheer concentration of life (and how ancient some of it is) in the Shroud allows them to join forces more effectively and have a say on what goes on in their forest up until the Calamity obliterated entire parts of it and the Elementals living there. The Isle of Val is very interesting because there's some messed up stuff going on with the aether there, but I'm not quite sure what would push the Elementals to go through the trouble of physically manifesting and to give us helpful effects if we happen to cross paths with them. Though didn't they also use to appear in the Shroud in 1.0? They were lvl90+ or something like that, am I getting my wires crossed here? I assume the ones chilling in Eureka are there for similar reasons Shroud Elementals used to hang out in the forest sometimes..?

The Elementals as we know them actually appeared everywhere in 1.0, they weren't a Shroud-exclusive thing. And I can't find on a quick check how high-level they were, but they were a good thirty or forty levels above what players could be.

My read on the Elementals (and this is largely speculation) is that they're essentially an environmental regulator, and they turn up wherever aether is especially wild. The Twelveswood has been that for a really long time, so they've become a permanent part of the ecosystem there, and possibly gained power through collective faith and belief, as happens sometimes. Eureka's famously a mess, so they sprung up over there. Enemies with the same model also cropped up in the Aetherfont dungeon, which is also a hotbed of aether.

I was under the impression "Kami" were also basically elementals in everything but name, with Geomancy serving the same purpose as Conjury.

This is a plausible read, albeit not one with any proper evidence, they are very similar. But I'd argue it's less because of any in-universe confluence, and more because the Elementals were already written to be very similar to Shinto kami.

[Lunair]

So, about the Elementals, Kami, and other Aether-based lifeforms...

Following the Calamity, the Elementals by and large do seem to be largely weakened, for two reasons. The first is in their actions during the Calamity, and the second is in their nature.

It's somewhat commonly known that, during the Calamity, as debris from Dalamud and Bahamut's rampage rocked the region, the Elementals expended a great deal of their power protecting the Twelveswood from the brunt of the damage. as a result, many of the Elementals, who are largely composed of aether like many other Elementals (the Kin.) such as Sprites, Carbuncles, and so on, are in a dramatically weakened state, but should replenish their aether given time and an ample supply of aether.

That said, that's just part of the story, and the much more pressing issue lies in the nature of the Elementals. As stated by Raya-o-senna,

"Raya-O-Senna: The trees are the elementals, the elementals are the trees——the lush verdure of the wood is inseparable from the spirits that dwell within it. But you do not need to hear this from me. Doubtless you felt it for yourself, when you healed that tree."

which clearly states that for the Elementals, the forest isn't just their home. it's they themselves. The Elementals aren't just protecting the Twelveswood, they're protecting their own bodies, something that's hinted at in several other places around the game, though the most explicit aside from the above would likely be the case of the Guardian Tree in Central Shroud.

The thing is, while the Elementals protected much of the Twelveswood from damage, in terms of the actual impact that the Calamity has had on the regions we have access to, the only area more dramatically changed than the Twelveswood is Coerthas, and even that's just a climate shift. The Elementals weren't just weakened, but crippled by the Calamity, and a lot of that is likely due to the fact that the Western Shroud region has been almost completely devastated by the fragment of Dalamud that hit in what is now the North Shroud. Combined with the vast network of caverns under the Shroud from Gelmorra and it comes as no real surprise that the entire region has been upended.

That said, while many of the Elementals have been weakened, there're still some that're more than powerful enough to go full Greenswrath, they're just less prone to do it, and preventing one such example from doing just that is the whole point of the ARR White Mage questline, the Warrior of Light playing a vital role in performing a ritual known as "The Quieting" to quell the wrath of the Guardian Tree in Central Shroud.

That's right. They're giving the tree anti-anxiety medication.

The Twelveswood isn't just a forest. it's a vast, interconnected entity made up of all the trees and plants that're intertwined at the roots throughout it, with the older trees themselves being part of the Elementals outright. While I cannot for the life of me remember where I read it, (it might have been a dev interview, but i can't be assed to find it if so at 2AM) I could swear i once saw reference to the root system visible in Toto-Rak being another such example as the biggest more extensive root system in the Twelveswood. That said, as I mentioned, i cannot remember where i got that, so i'd treat it with a grain of salt.

The interesting thing though is that, based on what we know about the setting, especially in reference to "Aether-based life" like Elementals (the Kin) it's hard to say WHERE Elementals (the species) actually originate from. On the one hand, it's possible they're a naturally propogating species that were created by the Ancients. On the other hand, it's also possible that, like Kami, Auspices, and Tural Vidraal, they're a result of the collective faith of the region's peoples giving life and form to beings that we know as Elementals, making them little more than naturally-occuring minor primals. Either way, they're definately still not to be trifled with, they're just MUCH more reserved right now since a huge swath of the forest (Again, the entire Western Shroud) has been annihalated by the Calamity and has yet to heal.

[Shistar]

Thank you, Lunair, lots of cool info and confirmation here!

That's right. They're giving the tree anti-anxiety medication.

Can I get some of that, too?

[Anonymoose]

With regard to the kami angle, I'd point to two pretty strong citations that it was intended.

The first is that the 1.0 Japanese language uses 1:1 Shinto terms to refer to elemental-associated stuff. Concepts like [purity as consistency with natural order], [purification of impurity as a communal responsibility], [pacification of spirits], [impurity as the source of spiritual wrath], etc. were all present. Gridania was Shinto through a lens but then Hingashi came along and did it without the lens in a different way.

The second is that the developer panel just before 1.x launch described Gridania as "inspired by an ancient Japanese polis".

Incidentally this is a big reason Gridanian culture gets misunderstood. If you can take it for granted that the elementals are real, that impurity is impurity regardless of "fault" and that it is the community's responsibility to purify it, that the presence of impurity causes the elementals to enter a wrathful state regardless of what they would otherwise "want", and that elemental wrath causes the forest to become agitated and violent and brings disaster, then it makes a lot of sense why Gridania is wary of outsiders, doesn't trust them to protect the community, is afraid of the calamity they might recklessly bring on the community, etc.