How should tbn get changed/updated?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Oblation would be slightly less awkward if it were available at a lower level (even, dare I say, before TBN) with 1 or 2 charges, and optionally got an upgrade to 15%. There are still too many WARs running around anyways.

WARs running around is because of the unwillingness to tone down Raw Intuition/Bloodwhetting, to be honest. Those skills would still be extremely good even if they only triggered once per weaponskill rather than for each enemy hit, given the short cooldown. It would also make the synergy with Rampart & Thrill of Battle more relevant for AOE situations rather than being a Benediction with a 25s cooldown.

[Valence]

Remember when WAR's AOE self heal was still based on skill with the healing directly based on damage dealt? Like in pvp?

But I don't think we can have nice things like that anymore.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Would at very least get you to commit spending an Infuriate for a bigger heal, yeah.

[Carighan]

Remember when WAR's AOE self heal was still based on skill with the healing directly based on damage dealt? Like in pvp?

While unintuitive, I get this change. After all before it meant you healed - significantly - less at lower ilvls and against higher content, which disproportionally hurt newer and undergeared players, those very ones where tank self healing and overall healing as a concept still matters. While the bigger healing went to those who took less damage anyways, and hence wouldn't even be able to utilize it.

I suspect this could be done smarter of course, say Warriors produce stacking shields on themselves instead of healing, but as their health drops this decreases while healing from damage increases. As this is based on health missing, it scales with taking more damage at lower gear levels.

All hypothetical of course because SE has shown in the past that they're unwilling to do actual reworks, nevermind re-implementations. They did one (Summoner), and everything else even Black Mage is something that'd be a pretty minor side-note in any other MMO, it just feels big here because we virtually never get big class changes.

[Valence]

While unintuitive, I get this change. After all before it meant you healed - significantly - less at lower ilvls and against higher content, which disproportionally hurt newer and undergeared players, those very ones where tank self healing and overall healing as a concept still matters. While the bigger healing went to those who took less damage anyways, and hence wouldn't even be able to utilize it.

No other tank healed at lower lvl (sub 80) beyond GNB with Aurora, or if you want to push it, PLD with Clemency at the cost of no damage and MP. Neither did WAR in SHB even though it had the new shiny Nascent Flash that allowed it to heal like today, but only once out of two because it was damage based (so pretty crappy outside of burst tools). Nascent unlocked at lvl72, there was no WAR self heal below except Equilibrium in the HW range (which was isn't very powerful in its base form).

[Carighan]

I agree, but that's not what I wrote. I wrote "ilvl".

[Valence]

I see. Still not sure why is this a sudden problem. Are we also complaining that DPS do more damage as they gear up, or that healers do crank more healing as their gear gets better, or that people take less damage as their defenses go up?

[Carighan]

I see. Still not sure why is this a sudden problem. Are we also complaining that DPS do more damage as they gear up, or that healers do crank more healing as their gear gets better, or that people take less damage as their defenses go up?

No and to be fair it's a similar problem TBN can find itself in: As your gear improves and fights get shorter, it becomes tougher and tougher to "pop" TBN. Likewise as a Warrior takes less and less damage, the healing they got from pre-change thingy goes up, but their need for it evaporates so that counterintuitively it becomes weaker in a net-calculation. This is why it's fine in PvP where our HP and stuff is unaffected as we don't go up in item level.

It's of course easy to fix, and the fix is the same one as for healers as a whole role: Make fights actually deal actual amounts of damage to people, not just the tanks, but yes, also them. Like actually tax defenses and make tanks sweat a little bit. Of course it's not entirely simple in that the ilvl-curve also needs flattening to within a single expansion the effect of each new tier of gear is less overall effective as the previous one, and this has to rapidly compound (so weak->okay gear is noticable, but okay->great is far less so).

[Mecia]

Its application time should be made faster.

Sorry, but every comment that says "delete Oblation because its bloat" disappoints me a little. How about we "don't" delete things based on a whim?

Oblation and the shorter CD on TBN honestly makes DRK feel like it has the most 'tank' identity.

[Carighan]

Its application time should be made faster.

This weird non-equal delay to things in FFXIV is so weird. If at least all skills had the same delays of press->application and application->effect, then I'd be okay. But somehow TBN has a far longer time between when you get the buff and when the shield can start absorbing damage than other shields!