How should tbn get changed/updated?

[Rithy255]

I don't think TBN has any reward in the "risk vs reward" exchange.

I don't think they need to remove the MP costing aspect, but using TBN should be rewarded instead of being DPS neutral and not incentivising some level of risk, such as a very small potency gain from using edge of shadow while under the effects of "dark arts". Theirs also the possibilty of adding a small healing effect, though I think dark knight is fine with healing sustain right now I dont think it needs more so something would have to give somewhere else for me to be more on board with that, I'd move it down a couple of levels too (Like around 50-60).

On the topic of Oblation, I think oblation could possibly be reworked, I don't really see the point in having a 10% mitigation it feels like the definition of "bloat" it only really exists as you can't have extra mitigation value tied to TBN unlike other tank skills (which I am against stacking effects onto skills that do the same thing, I rather stuff like Holy sheltron just be a 20% mit and regen, not two seperate stacked mits). You can very easily make something like dark mind targetable and have 2 charges. Tanks already have rampart, 40% mit, short mit and a 90s (60s for drk) by default, they should generally separate those skills and make them more flexible we don't really need more mitigation skills put ontop of that especially when you can have more interesting skills replace that.

[Oizen]

Oblation grants Dark Knight the unique ability to single target mit 3 individual people at once.

If you don't see value in that you probably don't do high end content.
There is a lot of power in having these buttons exist seperately rather than as yet another homogenous fire and forget lv 82 tank mit

[VictorSpoils]

Oblation would be slightly less awkward if it were available at a lower level (even, dare I say, before TBN) with 1 or 2 charges, and optionally got an upgrade to 15%. There are still too many WARs running around anyways.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Oblation would be slightly less awkward if it were available at a lower level (even, dare I say, before TBN) with 1 or 2 charges, and optionally got an upgrade to 15%. There are still too many WARs running around anyways.

WARs running around is because of the unwillingness to tone down Raw Intuition/Bloodwhetting, to be honest. Those skills would still be extremely good even if they only triggered once per weaponskill rather than for each enemy hit, given the short cooldown. It would also make the synergy with Rampart & Thrill of Battle more relevant for AOE situations rather than being a Benediction with a 25s cooldown.

[Valence]

Remember when WAR's AOE self heal was still based on skill with the healing directly based on damage dealt? Like in pvp?

But I don't think we can have nice things like that anymore.

[Carighan]

Remember when WAR's AOE self heal was still based on skill with the healing directly based on damage dealt? Like in pvp?

While unintuitive, I get this change. After all before it meant you healed - significantly - less at lower ilvls and against higher content, which disproportionally hurt newer and undergeared players, those very ones where tank self healing and overall healing as a concept still matters. While the bigger healing went to those who took less damage anyways, and hence wouldn't even be able to utilize it.

I suspect this could be done smarter of course, say Warriors produce stacking shields on themselves instead of healing, but as their health drops this decreases while healing from damage increases. As this is based on health missing, it scales with taking more damage at lower gear levels.

All hypothetical of course because SE has shown in the past that they're unwilling to do actual reworks, nevermind re-implementations. They did one (Summoner), and everything else even Black Mage is something that'd be a pretty minor side-note in any other MMO, it just feels big here because we virtually never get big class changes.

[Valence]

While unintuitive, I get this change. After all before it meant you healed - significantly - less at lower ilvls and against higher content, which disproportionally hurt newer and undergeared players, those very ones where tank self healing and overall healing as a concept still matters. While the bigger healing went to those who took less damage anyways, and hence wouldn't even be able to utilize it.

No other tank healed at lower lvl (sub 80) beyond GNB with Aurora, or if you want to push it, PLD with Clemency at the cost of no damage and MP. Neither did WAR in SHB even though it had the new shiny Nascent Flash that allowed it to heal like today, but only once out of two because it was damage based (so pretty crappy outside of burst tools). Nascent unlocked at lvl72, there was no WAR self heal below except Equilibrium in the HW range (which was isn't very powerful in its base form).

[Carighan]

I agree, but that's not what I wrote. I wrote "ilvl".

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Would at very least get you to commit spending an Infuriate for a bigger heal, yeah.

[Valence]

I see. Still not sure why is this a sudden problem. Are we also complaining that DPS do more damage as they gear up, or that healers do crank more healing as their gear gets better, or that people take less damage as their defenses go up?