Player Drop Off and Accessibility/Diffculty

[Xapapetsu]

And what exactly is savage worthee mechanic in that raid? The hands telegraph? The towers? Sitting with your alliance? The stored mechanics?

Take Rubicante as an example, that fight was vastly more complex than any mechanic Chaotic has. Let's not kid ourselves and shift the blame to the design. There should come a time when people actually take accountability and admit that what made it savage and miserable overall was the people.

Pretty much the only savage mechanic in that fight is the body check during towers and it's only an issue because its a 24 man and only 3 people can miss a tower. The rest is EX at best.

[Kohashi]

Pretty much the only savage mechanic in that fight is the body check during towers and it's only an issue because its a 24 man and only 3 people can miss a tower. The rest is EX at best.

Incorrect. It's not even a body check in the traditional sense. Body check means everyone instantly wipes if 1 person misses it because you are getting vuln up, which doesn't happen. You can consider the Rapid-sequence Particle Beam a body check too..lol.

You can easily bypass that with either Tank LB or having competent healers that mitigate it, unless you have multiple people failing the mechanic and then only tank LB will save you. Anything else?

[Alicat]

As someone with a disability I don’t find the game hard but not to easy either. Some days I will find some dungeons or raids harder than others and some I’m completely fine with. Deadwalk the level 100 dungeon the other day I got it twice in my roos (1 before reset one after) first boss both times I died. I don’t know honestly if it was because of a slight bit of lag or that I was feeling off as my pain levels were acting up and was more tired. I got it again today in my roos and no problem.

A lot of things does come down to memory and I do have a few issues there but I like the harder mechs I like when I die and think why did that happen and then I learn. As my disability prevents me from a normal life XIV’s more tricker mechs keeps my brain functioning better than doing nothing.

As for savage and high end my biggest issue is I do have more anxiety going into PF on my own but that’s more with the extremes as for savage I would prefer a static but have had trouble finding one that sticks around for the whole tier and may come back for the next one. I kinda need to find one that would understand if I’m not feeling great to reschedule tho I have often pushed through these things. Even trying to do UWU once with the sound off as my household caught covid.

I don’t know what square could do to make it more accessible for people with disabilities. I know I would definitely appreciate a more muted ‘flash bang’ that wants to blind you in places. Alexander comes to mind and the Alexandria dungeon does too. But most days I can deal with that if I’m subjected to it.

I did see something recently about what if XIV had a similar system to XVI in the sense of accessories that may make MSQ related content easier. If they did that could that help. I don’t know how the could implement it but it’s a possibility

[Azurarok]

Strayborough's first boss is notoriously bad with the game's latency problems. There's some amount of baiting ranged jobs can do to help make dodging a little easier but it's largely just hoping the netcode will behave well enough.

Level Cap roulette's queues are weirdly long, even with the current population in mind, and I wouldn't be surprised if folks are avoiding it because of that dungeon.

[Stroodle]

I think this discussion should be split in two where people want the easier dungeons - here the issue is that the game doesn't introduce the harder mechanics over the time in each expansion

from quite boring savage where you are forced to restart all the time and your personal skill is not meaningful due to DDR formula what is soooo outdated in modern gaming.

There absolutely is personal skill involved in savage (and ult) fights that can make meaningful changes and even save runs.

For healers, one example is if something goes wrong such as a player dying, being able to rez them while still doing mechanics means keeping the fight going and preventing total failure (this can be done even in all ultimates too because windows of time exist where a death wont wipe you).
For even more healer skill expression, knowing to top off the party and mit before rezzing a player, not tunnel visioning the moment someone dies and forgetting to keep everyone alive first. Want more? Noticing that mit is missing on at attack that may kill everyone and then adding the requisite missing amount to save the run.

For tanks, the mit thing also applies. Another example for tanks is if a player is low and needs to be healthy before a mechanic begins, they can quickly throw their mit to that player, doing things like that in a split second to save someone and potentially saving an entire run is skill expression.

For DPS, I would agree there that there is not as many options for them to show it, but the best they can do is doing their rotation as perfectly as possible so that if anyone messes up their rotation or a player dies, we would be so far ahead of the dps check that the death would be negligible. This could also be said for healers slidecasting properly and tanks doing their rotos properly as well, any extra damage you squeeze out gives you more room for error.

Skill expression does exist in this game in many forms, although it is definitely not that exciting now with current encounter and job design.

[Absurdity]

There absolutely is personal skill involved in savage (and ult) fights that can make meaningful changes and even save runs.

For healers, one example is if something goes wrong such as a player dying, being able to rez them while still doing mechanics means keeping the fight going and preventing total failure (this can be done even in all ultimates too because windows of time exist where a death wont wipe you).

Sure, it can be done but it depends heavily on when the death happens. If it's right before a body check there is basically nothing you can do. The other issue is that since most mechanics nowadays are designed to need exactly 8 people to solve it correctly, even if they aren't a guaranteed wipe, that one death will very likely cause additional ones since someone else is now getting hit by two mechanics.

For even more healer skill expression, knowing to top off the party and mit before rezzing a player, not tunnel visioning the moment someone dies and forgetting to keep everyone alive first. Want more? Noticing that mit is missing on at attack that may kill everyone and then adding the requisite missing amount to save the run.

True, it's one of the few remaining avenues for skill expression, but even here it's a "it depends".
Because now you're missing that cooldown for the mechanic that it was intended to cover, potentially just postponing a wipe by a few seconds.
Usually fine if you're in comms with your team, not so much when you're dealing with PF.

[Stroodle]

Sure, it can be done but it depends heavily on when the death happens. If it's right before a body check there is basically nothing you can do. The other issue is that since most mechanics nowadays are designed to need exactly 8 people to solve it correctly, even if they aren't a guaranteed wipe, that one death will very likely cause additional ones since someone else is now getting hit by two mechanics.

Yeah it all depends on the timing, a badly timed death and its all over, but all fights have moments that can be saved.

True, it's one of the few remaining avenues for skill expression, but even here it's a "it depends".
Because now you're missing that cooldown for the mechanic that it was intended to cover, potentially just postponing a wipe by a few seconds.
Usually fine if you're in comms with your team, not so much when you're dealing with PF.

Yeah that one has its ups and downs too, you either are with someone you can coordinate with or hope the PF members notice something was amiss and can compensate later in the fight.

I wanted to show some ways that skill expression does exist and its not just 0, but the ways they can be shown aren't the greatest either, since a lot of conditions need to be met. Another dig at the bad job a fight design.

[Myotis]

There absolutely is personal skill involved in savage (and ult) fights that can make meaningful changes and even save runs.

For healers, one example is if something goes wrong such as a player dying, being able to rez them while still doing mechanics means keeping the fight going and preventing total failure (this can be done even in all ultimates too because windows of time exist where a death wont wipe you).
For even more healer skill expression, knowing to top off the party and mit before rezzing a player, not tunnel visioning the moment someone dies and forgetting to keep everyone alive first. Want more? Noticing that mit is missing on at attack that may kill everyone and then adding the requisite missing amount to save the run.

For tanks, the mit thing also applies. Another example for tanks is if a player is low and needs to be healthy before a mechanic begins, they can quickly throw their mit to that player, doing things like that in a split second to save someone and potentially saving an entire run is skill expression.

For DPS, I would agree there that there is not as many options for them to show it, but the best they can do is doing their rotation as perfectly as possible so that if anyone messes up their rotation or a player dies, we would be so far ahead of the dps check that the death would be negligible. This could also be said for healers slidecasting properly and tanks doing their rotos properly as well, any extra damage you squeeze out gives you more room for error.

Skill expression does exist in this game in many forms, although it is definitely not that exciting now with current encounter and job design.

As a healer main doing progging the Ultimates i would say no.
Even if you res someone the next mechanic will just pop the window is quite small then they still have the debuff so there is a dps loss all depends on the fight - Is it really something super skillful? I don't feel it is they did not been standing on the right pixel - so the next body check mechanic will wipe the grup quite easly.

As for tanks missed mitigation usually does wipe out the party so i don't agree with your arguments.

Whole fight is just scripted and it is against a personal player skill do as they say or embrace the restart.

[Absurdity]

As for tanks missed mitigation usually does wipe out the party so i don't agree with your arguments.

If we're talking about the usual party mitigation from tanks then yes, the party just dies if you don't use it when you're supposed to, there is no decision to be made.

Stroodle is most likely talking about the short cooldown mitigation that every tank has.
Since tank damage is a joke in most fights you only need it for a tank buster, which leaves you with a lot of opportunities to throw a Heart of Corundum or Nascent Flash on someone that's too low on HP to survive the next raidwide.

Unfortunately that situation is rather rare.
If a DPS does a mechanic wrong in savage they're usually just dead.
And if it's the expected damage they should take from a mechanic then it already gets covered by the healer's planned AoE, since modern mechanics pretty much always hit the entire party and everyone needs healing anyway.

It used to happen a bit more often that someone was lower HP than expected because the heal didn't catch them, before they buffed healer AoE range into outer space.
But notice a pattern here, everything that could potentially have lead to player skill expression got patched out of the game at some point because it was deemed "inconvenient".

[Myotis]

If we're talking about the usual party mitigation from tanks then yes, the party just dies if you don't use it when you're supposed to, there is no decision to be made.

Stroodle is most likely talking about the short cooldown mitigation that every tank has.
Since tank damage is a joke in most fights you only need it for a tank buster, which leaves you with a lot of opportunities to throw a Heart of Corundum or Nascent Flash on someone that's too low on HP to survive the next raidwide.

Unfortunately that situation is rather rare.
If a DPS does a mechanic wrong in savage they're usually just dead.
And if it's the expected damage they should take from a mechanic then it already gets covered by the healer's planned AoE, since modern mechanics pretty much always hit the entire party and everyone needs healing anyway.

It used to happen a bit more often that someone was lower HP than expected because the heal didn't catch them, before they buffed healer AoE range into outer space.
But notice a pattern here, everything that could potentially have lead to player skill expression got patched out of the game at some point because it was deemed "inconvenient".

I belive he meant the miti used for ride wides yet it's still soo scripted that there is none of the freedom it doesn't feel like a clash with boss where boss actually does deal the damage healers heal and dps swirl around it solving stuff.
It's just another boring dance the same we had for 8 years and making it quicker , with souls like punishments is just tiring long term , unfun and frustrating.
Woahhh learn where to stand on certain frame of the fight ... *next patch * - woaaah learn again it's the same but gotchhh yaaa it looks diffrent nowww ... I don't know what hopes i have for 8.0 if they will keep those classes so homogenized and fights so forced to act as they want us.